Bibi won!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Who mentioned genocide?

Are you saying you're fine with ethnic cleansing?

He was being sarcastic, MOBIUS.

[I AM MOBIUS]

Sometimes I can't tell with JM, I always find it safer to ram home the point with him - just in case...

Also, I have an online persona to keep up.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Also, I have an online persona to keep up.

[DinoDoc]

Also, I have an online persona to keep up.

But there's no dead Americans for you to fap over.

[Imran Siddiqui]

[DaShi]

Sabra and Shatila Massacres - watch it!

Yes, but how does it compare with Chicago?

[onejayhawk]

Who mentioned genocide?

Saudi Arabia, Syria, UAE, Jordan, Lebennon, Egypt, Iran, ...

Are you saying you're fine with ethnic cleansing?

Didn't you refer to Israeli settlements as cancer?

J

[I AM MOBIUS]

But there's no dead Americans for you to fap over.

Dude, you're the one that keeps wanting to put the lives of Americans at risk, not me. I simply remind you when you've killed another few thousand, or get a couple of hundred thousand injured, like the total waste that was Iraq...

Why are you so unpatriotic that you want Americans to die?

[dannubis]

Didn't you refer to Israeli settlements as cancer?

J

Well, unless there are a lot of Palestinians living inside those settlements, the settlements are indeed a prime example of ethnic cleansing.

[onejayhawk]

Well, unless there are a lot of Palestinians living inside those settlements, the settlements are indeed a prime example of ethnic cleansing.

Just to be clear,

ETHNIC CLEANSING: the expulsion, imprisonment, or killing of an ethnic minority by a dominant majority in order to achieve ethnic homogeneity

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

There is no way to make that fit. Look at the map. Israeli and Palestinian are well mixed, so no expulsion. Palestinian rights and freedoms, such as voting, are well documented. It is not possible to stretch the definition of ethnic cleansing to cover the West Bank or Gaza.

If the Palestinians were dominant, that would change rapidly.

J

[kentonio]

Just to be clear,

ETHNIC CLEANSING: the expulsion, imprisonment, or killing of an ethnic minority by a dominant majority in order to achieve ethnic homogeneity

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

There is no way to make that fit. Look at the map. Israeli and Palestinian are well mixed, so no expulsion. Palestinian rights and freedoms, such as voting, are well documented. It is not possible to stretch the definition of ethnic cleansing to cover the West Bank or Gaza.

If the Palestinians were dominant, that would change rapidly.

J

There's a clear example of ethnic cleansing in this very thread. Please stop making support of Israel into a necessity to support crimes that state has commited. I still support Israel in many ways, but I'm damned if I'm going to basically lie and pretend that driving out Palestinians from areas to ensure they are free for only Jewish people is anything other than ethnic cleansing.

[regexcellent]

a) Seizing land that doesn't belong to you, and declaring that it now belongs to you is not justifiable just because you call it your capital. East Jerusalem is not Israeli.

b) If you have eyes, you'll notice from that map that about 99% of the settlements are nowhere near East Jerusalem, making your point even weaker.

I'm sorry, I missed something when I replied to this earlier, I was replying to the second part.

The Old City of Jerusalem and the rest of the eastern city is Israeli period full stop. The Western Wall is there, the Knesset is there, and when the Jordanians controlled it they used the fact that it's on top of a hill to spot the fall of artillery rounds on the rest of Jerusalem, which is Israel's largest metro area. So no, there is no ****ing way Israel can realistically give it up because it's filled with Jews, it's culturally crucial, and losing it would make the rest of the country exceedingly difficult to defend from random mortar, rocket, and artillery attacks. Note that what makes the rockets ineffective in south of the country near Gaza is their inaccuracy, in part due to the fact that Hamas doesn't have the ability to spot the fall of its rounds for correction. Their range is also limited, because of low elevation.

Jerusalem isn't going to get divided again and any land swaps as part of a future deal are going to include the existing Jewish neighborhoods as part of Israel, so complaining about new apartments there is ridiculous. Classifying those apartments as "settlements" is downright dishonest.

[regexcellent]

The Arabs would have had the 1967 borders if they were wiling to accept them in 1967, but they weren't. They could have had the 1948 borders in 1948, but they weren't happy with those either. We have no reason to believe they're any happier with them now than they were then; in fact, we have every reason to believe that they won't be happy with the existence of a Jewish state between the Med and the Jordan no matter where its borders lie. In light of that, even talking about a peace process in terms of anything but "how do we force the Palestinians to accept peace?" is preposterous.

As a practical matter, the Jordanians and Egyptians are on Israel's side on this issue.

[onejayhawk]

There's a clear example of ethnic cleansing in this very thread. Please stop making support of Israel into a necessity to support crimes that state has commited. I still support Israel in many ways, but I'm damned if I'm going to basically lie and pretend that driving out Palestinians from areas to ensure they are free for only Jewish people is anything other than ethnic cleansing.

I will admit there has been an attempt at ethnic cleansing, to drive out any acknowledgment of Israel. One does not need to support Israel to take offense when Israel is called a cancer, or worse than terrorists. Both are in this thread.

Ethnic cleansing is a life and death issue. Settlements in the West Bank and Gaza do come close. No lying involved in that.

J

[I AM MOBIUS]

The Arabs would have had the 1967 borders if they were wiling to accept them in 1967, but they weren't.

You do realise that the 1967 6 Day War was a war of Israeli aggression, right? Israeli attacked first, and continued attacking first. That's how they were able to *****slap the Arabs so effectively. But hey, that part of history seems to have been rewritten as well these days...