what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Bereta_Eder]

There are two conflicting schools of geostrategic relevance in europe.

One is the atlantist approach (NATO, EU-US trade agreement etc) the other is the euroasian (or continental approach).

This always seemed to come second and tired.


However with the stark realization that the fate of the whole of europe is instristically linked to the middle east and its countries just can't afford to drop some bombs and then go hide an ocean away, this has interesting implications.

It seems european countries are now being forced to engage in a meaningful dialoge for a lasting peace in the middle east or the fallout will be disasterous. This automatically diminishes US arbitrary role.

I'm not saying they'll make it.
Just that it is interesting

[rah]

first USA armed and financed muslim fanatics there against a normal leadership that we tried to save from fanatics,

I guess
Saved from Fanatics=Conquer Country.
in Russian.

We were equally stupid arming "FREEDOM FIGHTERS" and you guys scampered out of there with your tail between your legs.

And history has shown that neither of our Countries demonstrated good judgement there.

We haven't quite scampered yet but soon.

[Ellestar]

Advisor of president of Ukraine compares us to insects

https://www.facebook.com/yuri.biriukov/posts/1686834148252062

I guess it's a progess, after all, Hitler compared Slavs to rabbits. Ukrainian Nazi downgraded us to insects.

[Ellestar]

I guess
Saved from Fanatics=Conquer Country.
in Russian.

We were equally stupid arming "FREEDOM FIGHTERS" and you guys scampered out of there with your tail between your legs.

And history has shown that neither of our Countries demonstrated good judgement there.

We haven't quite scampered yet but soon.

Look, moron, we were invited by a legitimate government to save them from muslim fanatics. Just like this time we're invited into Syria to save Syria in the same exact situation - to save the country from US-funded and US-armed muslim fanatics. Seriously, do they even teach you history in US schools?

[Proteus_MST]

...

It sees Russia as backward and not fit to play a "world leader" role.

...

Well, remember the 90s, when Russia wasn´t able to regularly pay its specialist (AFAIK even the salary to its nuclear forces was paid irregularly)
and remember the Kursk accident ... where russia (under Putin) was too proud to accept the help of other countries (despite the fact that these had rescue subs that would have been able to get to the place of accident earlier than the russian ones) ... while AFAIK even the european rescue subs wouldn´t have been able to get to the Kursk in time to rescue the sailors in the aft compartment, that wasn´t known beforehand, so Putin was playing his game of pride with the lifes of the sailors.

All in all I think that russia would be better off with being a cooperating member of the EU (and other international organizations) than playing Putins game of pride (and longing for the "good old times" of the cold war, where the USSR still was seen as one of two superpowers)

[rah]

Look, moron, we were invited by a legitimate government to save them from muslim fanatics. Just like this time we're invited into Syria to save Syria in the same exact situation - to save the country from US-funded and US-armed muslim fanatics. Seriously, do they even teach you history in US schools?

And after being invited in you arranged a coup killing the president and installed one of your socialist lackeys as President.
Sounds like a backhanded conquest to me.
Don't they even teach you history in Russian Schools.

Or are you going to claim Russian wasn't involved in the coup?
Sounds a tad too familiar.

[Ellestar]

Flight МН17 again. A letter from Federal Air Transport Agency of Russia to International Investigation Team on MH17 Crash

Link: http://www.favt.ru/novosti-novosti/?id=2311
Full text of the latter on 12 pages: http://www.favt.ru/public/materials/...fd2a486136.rtf

Mr. T.H.J. Joustra
Chairman, Dutch Safety Board
PO Box 95404 25 09 CK The Hague

Dear Mr. Joustra,

In September 2015, the Federal Air Transport Agency sent you a letter pointing out a number of contradictions and discrepancies in the investigation into the crash of Boeing 777-200 9M-MRD (Flight МН17) near Hrabove, Ukraine, on July 17, 2014. We have not received any reply to the above letter. The final report released on October 13, 2015, did not reflect many of the important facts that the Russian side had repeatedly drawn your attention to.

The Russian experts who had participated in the investigation continued their research based on the additional data specified in the final report and as a result obtained some new important facts that had been not examined in the course of the investigation.

Based on the provision stipulated by standard 5.13 of Annex 13 to the Chicago Convention, I herewith forward for your consideration and decision-making new important facts that need to be reflected in the final report.

The new important facts obtained by the Russian experts through additional experiments and examinations attest to the fact that the information provided in the final report with regards to the following conclusions was unsubstantiated and inaccurate:

on the possible presence of heavy air defense systems in eastern Ukraine that were not controlled by Ukrainian government forces;
that the aircraft was hit by a 9N314M high-explosive fragmentation warhead;
that the warhead that hit the aircraft was carried by a 9M38-series missile launched by a Buk surface-to-air missile system;
on the position of the missile in relation to the aircraft at the moment of detonation, as well as the area it was launched from.

We emphasize that all the statements in this letter are limited strictly to the conclusions drawn by the investigation team regarding the circumstances of the aircraft downing and analysis of Ukraine’s failure to close its airspace. This letter does not touch upon the recommendations on the safety of civil aircraft presented in the final report, as the Russian side intends to comment on them separately.

Attachment on 12 pages.

Yours sincerely
Oleg Storchevoy

Deputy Director,
Federal Air Transport Agency of Russia

Accredited Representative of the Russian Federation to
International Investigation Team on MH17 Crash

[Ellestar]

Well, remember the 90s, when Russia wasn´t able to regularly pay its specialist (AFAIK even the salary to its nuclear forces was paid irregularly)

Yeah, yeah, Western lackeys in economy and central bank. And oligarchs like Mikhail Khodorkovsky robbing a country, no surprise you supported him later.

All in all I think that russia would be better off with being a cooperating member of the EU (and other international organizations) than playing Putins game of pride (and longing for the "good old times" of the cold war, where the USSR still was seen as one of two superpowers)

Like Greece? Or maybe like Ukraine now? Or like Russia in the 1990's? No thank you, we're better off right now, even despite all Western sanctions.

[Ellestar]

And after being invited in you arranged a coup killing the president and installed one of your socialist lackeys as President.
Sounds like a backhanded conquest to me.
Don't they even teach you history in Russian Schools.

If there is a change of government formation, it's called a "revolution", not a "coup". The one in Ukraine is a coup. The one in Afghanistan is a revolution. Read wikipedia or something, if you're not educated enough to talk about such an obvious things.

Or are you going to claim Russian wasn't involved in the coup?
Sounds a tad too familiar.

In the revolution. Communists are supposed to support communist revolutions in other countries. Just read the lyrics of a Soviet hymn (i mean an original one, The Internationale), or something.

[rah]

Read wikipedia or something, if you're not educated enough to talk about such an obvious things.

Hmm OK, I'll Play.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War

In response to Afghan government requests, the Soviet government under leader Leonid Brezhnev first sent covert troops to advise and support the Afghani government, but on December 24, 1979, began the first deployment of the 40th Army.[30] Arriving in the capital Kabul, they staged a coup,[31] killing the Afghan President, and installing a rival Afghan socialist (Babrak Karmal).[29]

[Ellestar]

In response to Afghan government requests, the Soviet government under leader Leonid Brezhnev first sent covert troops to advise and support the Afghani government, but on December 24, 1979, began the first deployment of the 40th Army.[30] Arriving in the capital Kabul, they staged a coup,[31] killing the Afghan President, and installing a rival Afghan socialist (Babrak Karmal).[29]

Gay propaganda... Err i mean Western propaganda.

A revolution (from the Latin revolutio, "a turn around") is a fundamental change in political power or organizational structures that takes place in a relatively short period of time when the population rises up in revolt against the current authorities. Aristotle described two types of political revolution:

Complete change from one constitution to another
Modification of an existing constitution.[1]

Revolutions have occurred through human history and vary widely in terms of methods, duration, and motivating ideology. Their results include major changes in culture, economy, and socio-political institutions.

And

Politically, a coup d'état is a usually violent method of political engineering,[citation needed] which affects who rules in the government, without radical changes in the form of the government, the political system. Tactically, a coup d'état involves control by an active minority of usurpers who block the remaining (non-participant) defenders of the state's possible defence of the attacked government, by capturing or expelling the politico-military leaders and seizing physical control of the country's key government offices, communications media, and infrastructure.

Even people living more than two thousand years ago, like Aristotle, knew the difference. But apparently neither US press nor US citizens know it. Well, that's why Greece was an advanced state even in Ancient times, and you're still descendants of barbarians. Just as educated as barbarians. But there is more: instead of fixing your ignorance, you can't even manage to read wikipedia even if you're told about your ignorance.

[rah]

Hey, you asked me to look at WIKI and I did. I just posted what was there.
Go argue with them.

But I'll agree that the definition of Coup is stretched. A lot of people do use the term for a violent takeover where the leaders are killed (usually by a military force).
SO technically not quite. But regardless of the actual definition, you were invited in and how did you repay. Kill the president and put your own lackey in charge. That is considered taking over the country as far as most normal people are concerned.

And based on your second quote, what happened in the Ukraine technically wasn't a coup either.

[Ellestar]

And based on your second quote, what happened in the Ukraine technically wasn't a coup either.

Why so?

Politically, a coup d'état is a usually violent method of political engineering,[citation needed] which affects who rules in the government, without radical changes in the form of the government, the political system. Tactically, a coup d'état involves control by an active minority of usurpers who block the remaining (non-participant) defenders of the state's possible defence of the attacked government, by capturing or expelling the politico-military leaders and seizing physical control of the country's key government offices, communications media, and infrastructure.

It was violent, there were no changes in the form of government or political system. Active minority of usurpers (including but not only Nazi organizations) expelled a president and seized government buildings all over the country.

[Proteus_MST]

...

It was violent, there were no changes in the form of government or political system. Active minority of usurpers (including but not only Nazi organizations) expelled a president and seized government buildings all over the country.

After all I read he wasn´t expelled ...
instead he left the capital (and later fled the country) on his own,
which was used by the remaining parliament, to vote for his deposal,
because he "withdrew from his duty in an unconstitutional way":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution#Removal_of_Yanukovych

[Ellestar]

Let me see...

Nazi are burning police alive in the capital. West says that police absolutely can't respond and defend themselves from murderers.

"Unknown" snipers are killing people, and then a future head of Presidential Administration of Ukraine of a post-coup government is caught with a sniper rifle right there, in Kiev, near Maidan.

"Agreement on settlement of political crisis in Ukraine" was signed, but Nazis openly rejected it.

Then there was an armed assault against Yanukovich http://www.aif.ru/euromaidan/viktor_...vnoe_interview

Then Yanukovich flees the country in fear of his life. That's one of the two possible ways how a coup resolves - a leader of a country is either killed or can't return back in fear for his life.

to expel [expelled]: also to banish, to hound out, to proscribe, to get rid of

That article you're pointng at is referring only to a legitimate part of the impeachment of Yanukovich, and it wasn't legitimate either. A coup scenario wasn't accounted for in a constitution, so there was no constitutionally correct way to do the impeachment of Yanukovich. Noone says in a constitution "use this procedure of impeachment if your president runs from your country for his life".