what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Dinner]

It really is a sham Putin needlessly caused this war just because he couldn't stand the idea of Ukraine not being under his thumb. Every single death in the conflict can rightly be placed at the feet of the lying dictator in Moscow. He is the one who decided to create this conflict and without his interference there would be no conflict.

[N35t0r]

It really is a sham Putin needlessly caused this war just because he couldn't stand the idea of Ukraine not being under his thumb. Every single death in the conflict can rightly be placed at the feet of the lying dictator in Moscow. He is the one who decided to create this conflict and without his interference there would be no conflict.

Oh, you mean like the US and 90% of islamist terrorism?

[pchang]

You really believe that????

[Bereta_Eder]

so merkel lost 5% of her popularity after it was relieved it was co-operating with the paragorns of democracy in spying on the cheese surrendering monkies.
only 5%?

[pchang]

You really expect Germans to get mad about screwing over the French???

[Ellestar]

It really is a sham Putin needlessly caused this war just because he couldn't stand the idea of Ukraine not being under his thumb. Every single death in the conflict can rightly be placed at the feet of the lying dictator in Moscow. He is the one who decided to create this conflict and without his interference there would be no conflict.

You conveniently "forgot" that Ukraine was neutral, and it's the West who "couldn't stand the idea of Ukraine not being under Western thumb" and funded and orchestrated a coup in Ukraine.

So every single death in the conflict can rightly be placed at the feet of the Western banskters, millionaires and bureaucrats.

[Bereta_Eder]

You really expect Germans to get mad about screwing over the French???

There's a very well advertised "european solidarity" motto

[Saras]

<...> it's the West who <...> funded and orchestrated a coup in Ukraine.

So every single death in the conflict can rightly be placed at the feet of the Western banskters, millionaires and bureaucrats.

You must have some sources that would at least distantly show this to be the case. Evidence of Russian meddling on the other hand is obvious adn has been admitted by Putin.

[Ellestar]

[Saras]

Thank you for a thorough and specific reply to my question.

[Ellestar]

Thank you for a thorough and specific reply to my question.

I posted at the same time as you so it wasn't a reply to your question. Anyway, i see no reason to repeat the same things to people who don't want to listen anyway. Also, coup was obviously pro-western/pro-US and anti-Russian so it can't possibly be funded and orchestrated by Russia. It's funny to see that you blame Russia that it did an anti-Russian coup in Ukraine.

By the way, several days ago there was another attempt in Macedonia. Doesn't US understand that by funding coups everywhere they're becoming the worst enemies of Democracy? Every legal democratic protest will be suspected to be another coup. And police in all countries will be more and more trigger-happy as the time goes on, given that more and more policemen are being killed by "peaceful democratic protesters".

[Saras]

Anyway, i see no reason to repeat the same things to people who don't want to listen anyway.

I am yet to hear a coherent proof of what you claimed, namely " the West <...> funded and orchestrated a coup in Ukraine". Also, a coherent paragraph on how a presidential election in which a guy you don't like is elected is a coup and his cabinet is a "junta".

Also how a military coup was obviously pro-western/pro-US and anti-Russian so it can't possibly be funded and orchestrated by Russia. It's funny to see that you blame Russia that it did an anti-Russian coup in Ukraine.

You must have difficulty reading. Russia did not orchestrate a "coup", no one claims anything of the sort. It orchestrated a sham referendum in Ukrainian Crimea under the guns of Russian spec.ops soldiers and is actively supporting an armed insurgency around Luhansk and Donetsk with men, materiel, airspace denial and money.

[Ellestar]

I am yet to hear a coherent proof of what you claimed, namely " the West <...> funded and orchestrated a coup in Ukraine". Also, a coherent paragraph on how a presidential election in which a guy you don't like is elected is a coup and his cabinet is a "junta".

You must have difficulty reading. Russia did not orchestrate a "coup", no one claims anything of the sort. It orchestrated a sham referendum in Ukrainian Crimea under the guns of Russian spec.ops soldiers and is actively supporting an armed insurgency around Luhansk and Donetsk with men, materiel, airspace denial and money.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1502/01/fzgps.01.html

And since Mr. Putin made this decision around Crimea and Ukraine, not because of some grand strategy, but essentially because he was caught off balance by the protests in the Maidan, and Yanukovych then fleeing after we'd brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine.

See? Even Obama himself says that Putin did everything what he did only as a responce to USA's coup ("brokered" = orchestrated "a deal to transition power" with force = coup).

So, not only Obama places a full responsibility on USA, he also removes all responsibility from Russia - after all, Russia, as he says, only responded to US actions. By the way, that's exactly what i said a year ago.

I guess you may argue about a word "brokered" in "we'd brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine", but it's obvious that (a) it was a coup and (b) USA took responsibility in a "transition power in Ukraine", so it doesn't matter which cute word is used to cover it. USA took responsibility in a coup.

And as i already posted here, Nuland admitted that they funded efforts for regime change in Ukraine

http://www.globalresearch.ca/american-conquest-by-subversion-victoria-nulands-admits-washington-has-spent-5-billion-to-subvert-ukraine/5367782

and

http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2014/04/20140423298186.html

It doesn't matter if it indeed happened to be a coup or not, fact is, it was funded by USA.

P.S. By the way, Nuland personally participated in Maidan, so there is no way to deny USA involvement in a coup.

[Dinner]

http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-us-world-news/394353-obama-we-brokered-deal-transition-power-ukraine.html

The deal he was talking about was the one hosted by France and Germany between Yanocovich and the protesters to bring about early elections. Yanocovich wanted elections delayed several months so he could solidify his position while the protesters wanted him to step down immediately. As soon as the deal was announced protesters heard about the details they got upset aND stormed several buildings causing Yanocovich to run away like a little girl.

Personally, I do think the deal for early elections was a responsible deal but the people of the Ukraine really just weren't going to accept anything less than complete removal of the corrupt governed especially after he started shooting peaceful protesters. After that all hell broke loose and the deal was dead with in hours.

The US sure as hell didn't bring about the people's uprising, I am flattered that you think the US controls people around the world with a snap of its hands, but the reality is Yanocovich dug his position himself with his whole sale corruption and attacking protesters. Everyone outside of Russia knows this and it is sad that Russians are so gullible they believe Putin's lies.

[Dinner]

http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-us-world-news/394353-obama-we-brokered-deal-transition-power-ukraine.html

The deal he was talking about was the one hosted by France and Germany between Yanocovich and the protesters to bring about early elections. Yanocovich wanted elections delayed several months so he could solidify his position while the protesters wanted him to step down immediately. As soon as the deal was announced protesters heard about the details they got upset aND stormed several buildings causing Yanocovich to run away like a little girl.

Personally, I do think the deal for early elections was a responsible deal but the people of the Ukraine really just weren't going to accept anything less than complete removal of the corrupt governed especially after he started shooting peaceful protesters. After that all hell broke loose and the deal was dead with in hours.

The US sure as hell didn't bring about the people's uprising, I am flattered that you think the US controls people around the world with a snap of its hands, but the reality is Yanocovich dug his position himself with his whole sale corruption and attacking protesters. Everyone outside of Russia knows this and it is sad that Russians are so gullible they believe Putin's lies.