what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Bereta_Eder]

One must not forget or try to equate.
THAT's how genocides continue...
Not by remembering.

[rah]

So your solution is just to kill anyone you can label a nazi. Very nice.
That term gets thrown around here pretty lightly.
A few use the term to refer to those they don't like.

[Proteus_MST]

Well, actually a large percentage of those that were involved in the atrocities commited by the 3rd Reich and survived the war was actually punished.
This especially involves people who were employed in the KZs(and down to even the lowest ranks).

Actually even now we have trials against people that only recently have been discovered to have been in a position in a KZ, even if they were just paramedics there.
All that despite the fact that they now are more than 80 years old.
Here, for example a current trial against a 95 years old who, as was discovered, was a paramedic in Auschwitz:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/nationalsozialismus-prozess-gegen-ehemaligen-ss-sanitaeter-in-auschwitz-beginnt-im-vierten-anlauf-1.3157950

(actually it was already known before that he had this position, but he wasn't directly involved in any killings in Auschwitz ... which made him exempt of any punishment with the laws we had till a few years ago ... now lawss have changed, however and everyone who had worked in a KZ can be put to trial, regardless of whether he had anything to do with killings or not)

I don't think that the soviets persecuted any atrocities of their side so thoroughly.
Just remember the Katyn-Massacre against polish POWs and intellectuals

Over almost half a century the soviets covered it up and blamed the Nazis.
Then, when after Perestroika, the russians admitted that it was actually them who commited the atrocity, they were very quickly in blaming just Stalin and his Duma.
However AFAIK none of the officers or soldiers who actually executed the polish people were ever put to trial for it. (despite some of them possibly still living) The russians, even today, not even accept Katyn as a war crime

I am sure that a similar whitewashing after WW2 occured with other war crimes that were commited by the red army, not only against germans, but also against civilians in other countries that they "liberated" or conquered (like poland, the baltic states, finland and so on)

[Bereta_Eder]

I'm not sure about this so I say it with reservation.
I think in the museum it said that the murderer who ordered the massacre was given 5 years. Again I'm not sure I'll have to check it.

The museum didn't go against the germans but against nazism.


Another incident which I found out was this: the nazis tied fighters on the first wagon of the train to try and not get bombed by the resistance when the train moved ammunition etc

The fighters, tied up on the ****ing train shouted "BLOW IT UP!"

The fighters themselves.

Anyway, I don't give a rat's ass about some useless american telling me to be cilivilzed and I don't think that people change.


When putin talked about the anti-nazi vaxine losing power in europe, he knew full well what he said.

Maybe the russians should say something about Poland who knows.


But about the nazi machine, that was almost the whole country, that supported that regime?

No.
They need not say anything.

[Bereta_Eder]

So your solution is just to kill anyone you can label a nazi. Very nice.
That term gets thrown around here pretty lightly.
A few use the term to refer to those they don't like.

Yeah but why do they not like them?

Could it be because when people are suffering they take joy out of it?

Could it be that instead of hitler they worship a specific model of economics and like hitler when someone, for whatever reason, doesn't agree with their ideology, he/she should suffer?


How long of a distance is there between nazism and a person who closes his eyes to human suffering simply because it doesn't "comform" as he sees it with what he thinks should be done?


Particularly when he's from a country which has probably killed more people than nazi germany.

[Ellestar]

Nope ... surely not less barbaric than the germans.

So, an unknown (and most likely small) number of rapes is not less barbaric than murdering 26 million civilians? Goebbels whould have been proud of Germans like you.

Perhaps you should check the links I gave to you.
This isn't "just" about atrocities regarding german civilians, but includes other countries as well.

Every conscript army has a small number of criminals. The fact that USA and British troops were caught raping proves it. But again, USA and Britain killed more German civilians than USSR, even despite all the atrocities commited by German armies in USSR, so that proves that USSR army cared the most about human rights no matter what. There is that fact too. So we have two facts: every army raped civilians and USSR was last in a number of civilan kills, and Germany was overwhelmingly in a first place (like, more than 100 times ahead). So, i'm not sure how you manage to take these two facts together and come to a conclusion that USSR was not less barbaric than Germany.

This also is the case for the soviet treatment of POWs after the war ... where 25-35% of the 2.5-3 million german POWs died in soviet Gulags, due to being overworked, malnutrition and torture.

Actually, we had a famine in 1946-1947. And some people died of hunger even in 1948. There was too much destruction, and too many, especially males, were killed or crippled by Germans. So our agriculture was in a complete disarray, and together with a bad weather it was enough to cause a famine. So, the only ones who are responsible for these deaths are the Germans themselves. We aren't supposed to prioritize feeding Nazi when our own people are dying from famine, are we? Yet, most Germans actually surived, so that proves that Soviet people fed them anyway, even when our own people were dying from famine at that moment.

Germans, on the other hand, intentionally killed our civilians and POVs. They had enough food, water and medical supplies, they just decided to murder them all. Even the fact that you try to prove equality between Nazi and Soviets is very-very sad to me. More about the Western propaganda effect on Westerners in general, and about current Germany in particular, rather than being sad about the fact itself. Unfortunately, modern propaganda is just that efficient. Then again, Goebbels propaganda wasn't inefficient either...

[rah]

Anyway, I don't give a rat's ass about some useless american telling me to be cilivilzed and I don't think that people change.

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

[Bereta_Eder]

Thank you for giving me a chance to speak my mind

[rah]

No problem, we even let Nazi's do it here.
Of course we're free to jeer the crap out of them when they do.
But not kill them.

[Bereta_Eder]

I know.
You like bombing from a distance

[BeBMan]

Germans, on the other hand, intentionally killed our civilians and POVs. They had enough food, water and medical supplies, they just decided to murder them all. Even the fact that you try to prove equality between Nazi and Soviets is very-very sad to me. More about the Western propaganda effect on Westerners in general, and about current Germany in particular, rather than being sad about the fact itself. Unfortunately, modern propaganda is just that efficient. Then again, Goebbels propaganda wasn't inefficient either...

You did imply equality between Nazi and Soviets yourself when you claimed that ppl in dictatorships cannot be blamed for stuff (while those in democracies can if they just vote).

Ellestar I: ppl in dictatorships (and so on)

Ellestar II: OMG the nazis

[rah]

You'd be surprised at how many americans don't approve of any bombings.
Probably the same percentage of greeks that like to have sex with little boys.

[Ellestar]

I'm sure a nazi would say the same about a Russian, Greek or liberal. It's all a matter of perspective if you actively pursue death for those you dislike. Sad.

Equaling Nazi with Russian or Greek is Nazi itself.

And it's sad that you don't get a point. Nazi are inherenly mass murderers by their very ideology. It's not about disliking them, it's about saving lives by killing them before they will kill good people. Or at least after they kill good people.

And yes, it's a matter of perspective. USA looks at the things from the Nazi perspective: so what if Nazi kill other people, Vietnamese for example? Or Indians? So you don't understand how it looks from our perspective, from the ones who were on the recieving end of Nazi atrocities, when almost all families in entire country lost family members or at least their health to it. For example, both of my grandfathers were crippled for life - both of them survived the war because they were wounded to be unfit for army service, but one of them died much earlier than he should because of wounds and bad health. And another was walking with a walking stick for, like, 20 years after the war. Actually, he sometimes used it in 1980s too. Yep, you just can't understand it.

[Bereta_Eder]

You'd be surprised at how many americans don't approve of any bombings.
Probably the same percentage of greeks that like to have sex with little boys.

Well, let's see.
If I reply "well that's not nearly enough then" I'm ok but still somewhat screwed.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yep, you just can't understand it.

And that's exactly why they're so alike