what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Giancarlo]

All developing nations have had a long struggle to get to the point workers are well compensated and have a safe working environment. The US and other western countries had the same type of problems, and still do to some extent. It has nothing to do with free trade, other than free trade can help developing nations speed up the process of developing economies to the point where they can support high wages and the costly infrastructure required.

Leaving billions in abject poverty indefinitely is not a solution.

Free trade doesn't lift people out of poverty. It is a lie. Free trade doesn't help developing countries at all. Look at what it has done to certain Latin American countries. It simply helped the elite in those countries get even more wealthy. The working class (which is typically a majority of the country) has had no effect and is even worse off.

Free trade makes countries worse off. Not better. And it doesn't lift anyone out of poverty. It simply helps the elite steal even more.

[Proteus_MST]

And... I should just take your word for it.

Don't tell that to workers in Bangladesh who are dying in textile factories.

Free trade = Propaganda

While I am definitely not pro the exploitation of the workforce in third world countries (there should be a set of minimum standards that are valid for everyone reghardless of country), the question is ... what would those workers doif those textile factories didn't exist firsthand

[giblets]

Unfair competition and the businesses with more money cause corruption by driving those businesses out of business.

Free trade has bankrupted many small businesses. It only benefits the multinational super corporations. Those who are worth more than the GDPs of certain small companied. They then proceed to strip the land of natural resources, providing absolutely no benefit for the native habitants. This is what diamond and mining companies do with free trade.

What does "unfair competition" mean? How do you drive someone out of business without undercutting their prices?

[giblets]

And... I should just take your word for it.

Don't tell that to workers in Bangladesh who are dying in textile factories.

Free trade = Propaganda

As opposed to dying in rice paddies?

[Giancarlo]

While I am definitely not pro the exploitation of the workforce in third world countries (there should be a set of minimum standards that are valid for everyone reghardless of country), the question is ... what would those workers doif those textile factories didn't exist firsthand

They wouldn't be dying in them. My solution is more along the lines of microlending and fair trade. This has got women out of those sweatshops in Bangladesh.

[Giancarlo]

What does "unfair competition" mean? How do you drive someone out of business without undercutting their prices?

Walmart style. Speaking of which another atrocious company that has destroyed small businesses not just in the US but in other countries.

The mega corporation does exactly that. They can afford to under cut prices and collude with suppliers. The small business cannot. Free trade is essentially driving up poverty and destroying economies. These mega corporations (mining and precious materials especially) are only interested in stripping foreign countries of all their wealth. They are not interested in helping the native populations. Free trade is essentially a sugarcoated version of what King Leopold did in the Belgian Congo.

[Giancarlo]

While I am definitely not pro the exploitation of the workforce in third world countries (there should be a set of minimum standards that are valid for everyone reghardless of country), the question is ... what would those workers doif those textile factories didn't exist firsthand

That's a terrible argument that they should accept their fate in factories. Try telling that to the families of people who died in major accidents... All so the consumer here can have their Nike shoes.

[Ming]

Walmart style. They can afford to under cut prices and collude with suppliers. The small business cannot.

They can afford to offer customers lower prices because they buy in large volumes and get better discounts from the suppliers.
Gee, that sounds a lot more fair and balanced than "under cut prices and collude with suppliers". And the customer wins in this arrangement. They get more for their money.
That's why they are so successful.

As far as putting small business out of business... That's not evil. Some small business should go out of business... a high percentage already do and not only because of Walmart.
If all a businessman is going to do is whine because he can't offer as low as prices, than that's his problem. Small businesses that have changed their business model to actually fight against them can and have survived. They have learned that customer service can offset prices, because that's one thing Walmart sucks at. Also, small business can offer a wider of selection of specific products... something else Walmart doesn't do.
Competition is the nature of business. You want to think that Walmart is evil, but they are making many things more affordable to their customers... and that's a good thing for the customers. Yeah, yeah yeah, they pay their people like crap (but that is changing as they have come to the realization that the low wages is causing a problem in their stores) but at least they are providing jobs.

So... you want to put Walmart out of business? Because if you do, that means you are screwing the consumer. You will be forcing people to pay higher prices.

[giblets]

Walmart style. Speaking of which another atrocious company that has destroyed small businesses not just in the US but in other countries.

The mega corporation does exactly that. They can afford to under cut prices and collude with suppliers. The small business cannot. Free trade is essentially driving up poverty and destroying economies. These mega corporations (mining and precious materials especially) are only interested in stripping foreign countries of all their wealth. They are not interested in helping the native populations. Free trade is essentially a sugarcoated version of what King Leopold did in the Belgian Congo.

Walmart is cheaper. So free trade does lower prices.

[Aeson]

You seem to not understand what free trade is, and are equating it to its literal opposite.

Colonialism and mercantilism are not free trade. Leopold was a colonialist and mercantilist, and his Congo wasn't free to trade with anyone.

[Giancarlo]

They can afford to offer customers lower prices because they buy in large volumes and get better discounts from the suppliers.
Gee, that sounds a lot more fair and balanced than "under cut prices and collude with suppliers". And the customer wins in this arrangement. They get more for their money.
That's why they are so successful.

As far as putting small business out of business... That's not evil. Some small business should go out of business... a high percentage already do and not only because of Walmart.
If all a businessman is going to do is whine because he can't offer as low as prices, than that's his problem. Small businesses that have changed their business model to actually fight against them can and have survived. They have learned that customer service can offset prices, because that's one thing Walmart sucks at. Also, small business can offer a wider of selection of specific products... something else Walmart doesn't do.
Competition is the nature of business. You want to think that Walmart is evil, but they are making many things more affordable to their customers... and that's a good thing for the customers. Yeah, yeah yeah, they pay their people like crap (but that is changing as they have come to the realization that the low wages is causing a problem in their stores) but at least they are providing jobs.

So... you want to put Walmart out of business? Because if you do, that means you are screwing the consumer. You will be forcing people to pay higher prices.

You get lower quality products that break more often. It is like ARCO gas. Crap burns quick but hey its cheaper.

Walmart is much the same. Are you really paying less? Because lower quality items tend to break faster and not last as long. Seems to me the consumer is getting the short end of the stick in that store.

[Giancarlo]

You seem to not understand what free trade is, and are equating it to its literal opposite.

Colonialism and mercantilism are not free trade. Leopold was a colonialist and mercantilist, and his Congo wasn't free to trade with anyone.

Free trade is the same though. Only here it is elite businessmen enriching themselves while brutalizing the poor. Leopold was interested in lining his pockets.

Explain this.. If free trade is so awesome why has it had no positive impact on wages in the countries it robs?

Free trade is a sugarcoated euphemism for robbery and mega corporation colonialism. The mega corporation essentially owns the country and corrupts the already elitist government.

[giblets]

Clearly the people who choose to shop at Walmart are satisfied with the quality of the products.

[Giancarlo]

Clearly the people who choose to shop at Walmart are satisfied with the quality of the products.

Haha... Are they? Or do they not know any better? Often many towns and small cities in this country only have these megawalmarts. All the small businesses were driven out of business by market collusion.

[The Mad Monk]

Free trade is the same though. Only here it is elite businessmen enriching themselves while brutalizing the poor. Leopold was interested in lining his pockets.

Explain this.. If free trade is so awesome why has it had no positive impact on wages in the countries it robs?

You mean like China? Please tell me you mean like China.