what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Egbert]

Have you learned what the implication of owning a washing machine is? I'm wondering if I'm doing something horribly wrong by having one ...

What is your experience with owning a washing machine?

[Aeson]

Mainly that they wash clothes ...

[PLATO]

Mainly that they wash clothes ...

Yours too? How odd....

[Bereta_Eder]

It sucks but this is what happens when you run out of money and have crushing debt loads due to decades of incompetence. You guys did it to yourselves. Where you go wrong is thinking your fool's paradise could continue because it can't.

So now reality hits you and you need to reform and liberalize if you want to actually start growing again. It would help if your lefty PM stopped causing crisises which put you back into recession. Everyone else managed it and you guys could too if you just actually did the reforms. It was your choice to drag this out for six years.

It doesn't just suck.
It is unacceptable.

It also is the way things were when we were" advancing" with GDP growth as you said.

But now you say "reforms" (another name for class warfare) were not implemented even then?

Which is it?

You are confused.


Also, the debt was on par with that of the US when the crisis started, without the pathogenies of the latter that is.

[Bereta_Eder]

Your ideology about how an economy "should" work is being thrown up like a bad cheeseburger the world over.

That is because noone else is an american.

And of course one should not be led astray about a "memorandum" or the "loss of sovereignty".

Those are tales for little children.

An occupying neoliberal force can come in many ways, including when someone is "in" the markets and the "reforms" are being pushed by its own "independent" government.

The primary defense is the democratic functioning of each country. The thing neoliberal america the likes of oerdin despises. Their dystopia will always fall on the rocks of basic human principles.

Yes, even if that means the dismantling of the eurozone (which is an inescapable eventuality anyway, unless the whole project goes back to its roots and stops being a vehicle for the dismantling of social welfare).

[Saras]

Your ideology about how an economy "should" work is being thrown up like a bad cheeseburger the world over.

That is because noone else is an american.

And of course one should not be led astray about a "memorandum" or the "loss of sovereignty".

Those are tales for little children.

An occupying neoliberal force can come in many ways, including when someone is "in" the markets and the "reforms" are being pushed by its own "independent" government.

The primary defense is the democratic functioning of each country. The thing neoliberal america the likes of oerdin despises. Their dystopia will always fall on the rocks of basic human principles.

Yes, even if that means the dismantling of the eurozone (which is an inescapable eventuality anyway, unless the whole project goes back to its roots and stops being a vehicle for the dismantling of social welfare).

If you want to have social welfare be prepared to finance it with tax revenue. It's not that complicated. Also, do not be surprised if at some point of the Laffer curve your tax revenue will decline. Also, not very complicated. And try not to elect thieves and crooks again. A bit more complicated, and will take some time, but at least pretty obvious

[Bereta_Eder]

And of course, under any circumstances, don't become Latvia.
The country which implemented the memorandum at full, due to fear of Russia and basic lack of democratic legacy

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/01/03/latvia-is-a-success-story-if-by-success-story-you-mean-disaster/

(or any of the batlics, except Lithuania, for basketball)

[Saras]

And of course, under any circumstances, don't become Latvia.
The country which implemented the memorandum at full, due to fear of Russia and basic lack of democratic legacy

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/01/03/latvia-is-a-success-story-if-by-success-story-you-mean-disaster/

(or any of the batlics, except Lithuania, for basketball)

I don't think it's possible for Greece to become anything remotely similar to Estonia or Latvia. I'm not even talking about Lithuania, as that would mean that not only you'd need to run a prudent fiscal policy, but also learn to play decent basketball.

BOOM.

[Bereta_Eder]

Anyway

It will be interesting to see what will happen.
The plan that envisions 0% cuts in pensions is already here with its offsetting measures in place.

Let us hope the "creditors" accept it because the EU is in a far more dire state than it had been the last year due to reasons also other than just financial.

[dannubis]

Compared to a year ago? At that moment Ukraine already didn't control that territory. Any more excuses?

Firstly, do you have any idea on how custom declarations work? Especially for large industrial applications?
And secondly, do you have any idea on how Chinese overcapacity is impacting other exporting economies around the globe since .... wait for it .... their internal growth slowed down in 2013-14 ?

[PLATO]

Look, if his organization kills all "non-Ukrainians", including Jews and Polish in villages all over Ukraine, it's a good proof that they're Nazis themselves, right? Just ask Polish people on this forum what do they think about OUN-UPA. Or, for example, google "OUN-UPA" and look at the pictures that are found with that search request, dismembered kindergarden children and things like that. ISIS are pacifists compared to OUN-UPA, actually even German Nazis were appalled by OUN-UPA cruelty.

Thanks Ellestar. I did just that. Horrible. This organization should be banned. I see the point that they had on wanting their freedom as a state, but what a terribly misguided way to go about it.

Well, if you care about the actual sequence of events, you may notice that first marches like that openly started in Ukraine, and only after that Crimea and Donbass decided to get away from Nazis and pro-Nazi government that occupied Kiev after the coup. So, if you're a decent person, not a shameless hypocrite, you can't use an argument that you're trying to pull here, because the cause and effect was completely opposite to what you just claimed.

I guess I am a shameless hypocrite then as I still believe there were better ways to go about that then ignoring an agreement, stealing territory, and causing a rebellion.

[Dinner]

It doesn't just suck.
It is unacceptable.

It also is the way things were when we were" advancing" with GDP growth as you said.

But now you say "reforms" (another name for class warfare) were not implemented even then?

Which is it?

You are confused.


Also, the debt was on par with that of the US when the crisis started, without the pathogenies of the latter that is.

The US has control of its own monitory policy while Greece gave that up when it joined the Euro. It was your decision to borrow like mad and regulate the private sector to death without having a monitory escape valve.

No one will loan you more money and you cannot use monitory policy so the only thing left is cutting spending and liberalize Nguyen the economy. You keep saying you want things to go back to how they were but they were all financed via debt and your credit is used up so that just is not a realistic option for you. Everyone seems to know this but you.

As for class warfare, congratulations, this is what your wonderful preferred policies have brought you too. If you like it then keep refusing to reform but if not maybe you guys should stop refusing to change and actually make the needed reforms.

[Dinner]

Anyway

It will be interesting to see what will happen.
The plan that envisions 0% cuts in pensions is already here with its offsetting measures in place.

Let us hope the "creditors" accept it because the EU is in a far more dire state than it had been the last year due to reasons also other than just financial.

They off set it for one year but what about the next 20? It is a reoccurring expense so, no, the crediters are not likely to accept it especially since they have already said they will not.

[Bereta_Eder]

The same offset.

And they haven't said no.

If they do, I hope your have kept some nice EU flag next to your swastika because it will make for a great memorabilia.

Also the debt was ballooned after the destructive austerity was so cynically enforced.

[Dinner]

And of course, under any circumstances, don't become Latvia.
The country which implemented the memorandum at full, due to fear of Russia and basic lack of democratic legacy

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/01/03/latvia-is-a-success-story-if-by-success-story-you-mean-disaster/

(or any of the batlics, except Lithuania, for basketball)

Actually, that Jan 2013 article show exactly how wrong you are. The crisis hit in 2008 and it hit Latvia hard but they made the needed reforms and started growing again in 2010 and by the end of 2013 their economy was larger then it was prerecession levels with unemployment going steadily down and exports soaring.

Compare that to Greece where one government after another has refused to reform regulations or liberalize their economy unless dragged kicking and screaming and even then only over the most basic and minor market reforms. They have only fiddle with spending numbers and taxes (which most Greeks ignore and don't pay anyway) while refusing to privitized or liberalize. It is 2016 and Greece is still in the toilet with no end in sight while Latvia's economy is soaring. Just stop being stupid, make the reforms, and start your recovery. You people are your own worst enemies.