Exit Polls Suggest Syriza Has Won Greek Election

[Bereta_Eder]

I know.
Mandates can change though. They can change through referendums (or elections).
A referendum with a clear question: in or out of the euro.
Plus you need a plan to reconstruct your shattered industrial/productive base. You need short term assistance too.
Who said speak quitely and carry a machine gun?
You don't go to negotiate without a concrete plan in place for producing new currency in two weeks with capital controls in place.

But people are not mature enough yet. They believe europe can change.
I too think we should wait for the spanish. But maybe I'm wrong.

Schauble is incensed (I'm SURE US put some pressure on, the only ones they didn't talk to was santa claus) but as said, bandaids to a gushing wound.

[Fake Boris]

I remember back in 2010, a whole bunch of Greek teachers visited my high school for two weeks in some sort of exchange program. We had a discussion between the students of my AP Government class and the teachers that centered on the debt crisis. I remember asking them how they felt about the austerity policies, and they starting absolutely raving about how horrible the IMF and Germans are and so on. One of them seemed to be approaching tears...it was shocking to me. I asked how they could be angry at the IMF for being willing to loan them money at all when no one else would. They just sat in stunned silence for a good 30 seconds or so. I don't think they'd considered it that way before. They just shook their heads when most of the class turned out to be basically behind my point of view on it...that experience made me realize the mentality over there is entirely different. In terms of economics, these teachers had no concept of exchange, just the idea of deserving things inherently.

So I guess you could say the exchange program was a success. It opened my eyes to an entirely new mindset: Dependence and entitlement. It frightens me, to be honest--the thought that you could have a whole society of people who feel so deeply and fundamentally as though they deserve something for nothing. Perhaps it shouldn't be so shocking--I think we get that frequently enough here too. But it's a far greater extreme over there.

This is all nice sounding, but it's completely retarded.

If Greece had its own currency and Central bank, it could do what is completely normal to do, i.e. finance the government interest free. Public debt is a purely artificial construct resulting from delegation of monetary creation to private interests.

I'm afraid the people you spoke with are completely right. You seriously think it's their duty to pay for leeches bleeding the public dry with a permanent debt and its permanent interest payments?

[Bereta_Eder]

People here are mildly ok simply because they compare syriza with the previous quisling governments and they think they are vindicated or something.
But as cockney said it is a poisoned chalice be made to be drunk the next 4 months.
Let's see what tsipras does though his hands are tied. Tax the ****ing rich, simplify legislation, overturn privitizations and bring profitable enterprises back to the state, hold pensions still, re-equip hospitals and schools, scrap previous plans to sell assets for peanuts and for heavens' sake fix the taxing system.
(but prepare for a grexit just in case)

Oh and Oerdin mentioned the property tax. It will be scraped for the have nots, it will be made 10 times more severe for the haves. (the have ones? the botoxed ones?)
But the austerity measures will not let him do what it needs to be done.

Quantitative easing done by draghi is too little. Even if ELA is scrapped and we get to have re-access to the ECB, austerity will simply annule all these semi-measures.
I'm afraid it becomes clearer and clearer.

Let the dust settle and we'll see how deep this conspiracy cuts!
(ok I'm getting carried away here, too much sugar)

[Hauldren Collider]

re: many people: The observation was not about their opinion of austerity policies, it was their belief that the IMF and Germany somehow inherently owed them anything, which is patently ridiculous. Leaving the Euro was not the point either. They were mad at people providing an essential service when no one else was willing to because they felt that they shouldn't have to pay for it. That's a strange and foreign mindset to me and my peers in that class.

I should add they actually were not mad at me for asking my question. Like I said, I think they really had never considered it from that angle before.

[Fake Boris]

Of course people shouldn't have to pay for monetary creation. That's the whole point.

[Dinner]

http://m.ft.com/cms/s/0/b47c6d76-a320-11e4-bbef-00144feab7de.html

The free loading Greek dead beats stopped paying their taxes once again as soon as Syriza was ahead in the polls and since getting elected Syriza has also stopped collecting most taxes. These 3rd worlders will never learn, just kick them out already, and let them enjoy being 3rd worlders on someone else's dime.

[Bereta_Eder]

Go kill some arab and then feel guilty or something, and start reading the bible, it's more substantial than some of your sources and assumptions.


About HC, I respect that that's what he felt.

[Dinner]

Plus they forced us to take the loan which syriza took without the crippling austerity measures though. It does not have a mandate to leave the euro just lessen austerity. Untill the people wake up completely its hands are tied.

Not true. They told the dead beat Greeks that if they didn't like the German austarity plan then they had until Monday to submit their own of equal value. If the Germans don't agree to the plan then the dead beat Greeks still will get kicked out. Even if the Germans agree to a revised plan of equal value, something which has not happened yet, the Greeks would have a total of four months to impliment the new austarity/reforms or they'd be kicked out.

We all know Syriza isn't going to be willing to perform so this is just a farce and a waste of money.

[Dinner]

Go kill some arab and then feel guilty or something, and start reading the bible, it's more substantial than some of your sources and assumptions.


About HC, I respect that that's what he felt.

The Financial Times of London is a great source.

[Bereta_Eder]

You have been proven wrong all the time...
Just yesterday you were refuted. Deal with that fact.

[DinoDoc]

and taking into account the quisling former govs (yes Im pissed)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]177211[/ATTACH]

Default and leave.

[Bereta_Eder]

The circumstances are not yet mature, I'd think.

[Dinner]

re: many people: The observation was not about their opinion of austerity policies, it was their belief that the IMF and Germany somehow inherently owed them anything, which is patently ridiculous. Leaving the Euro was not the point either. They were mad at people providing an essential service when no one else was willing to because they felt that they shouldn't have to pay for it. That's a strange and foreign mindset to me and my peers in that class.

I should add they actually were not mad at me for asking my question. Like I said, I think they really had never considered it from that angle before.

Just listen to Paiktis's manifesto about nationalizing all profitable business, spending lots of money they don't have, never paying any taxes unless you are a 1%er, and some how everything will magically be ok.

It is a complete fantasy world. Under EU law any nationalized business has to be bought at fair market value. Where is the money for this? The Greeks can't even buy toilet paper much less nationalize all the companies in the country. ****, every business the state does own right now is an inefficient money loser because the lazy Greeks run it into the ground pretending it is a welfare ticket they can milk instead of actually working.

Their entire mentality is one of stupidity, fantasy beliefs, and a belief that the world owes them something for nothing. Let them burn themselves down. It is the only way these dullards will learn about reality.

[Bereta_Eder]

Keep digging yourself deeper

[Dinner]

You have been proven wrong all the time...
Just yesterday you were refuted. Deal with that fact.

Speaking of fantasy worlds... What was I supposedly "proved wrong" about yesterday? Use quotes.