Exit Polls Suggest Syriza Has Won Greek Election

[Dinner]

Last I saw all the EU ministers said while they would prefer Greece not to exit it is not worth keeping them at any price and that a Grexit would not pose a systemic risk to the Euro as they now had good institutions in place to prevent any spread. It won't be a big deal for anyone but the Greeks but they deserve it if they are stupid enough not to realize they have no leverage.

[Hauldren Collider]

California has been subsidizing the rest of the country for decades. Places like West Virginia and Mississippi have been net recipients of Federal transfers for about the same amount of time.

That however does not say anything about their state finances...

IIRC actually Illinois is the one to watch out for, not California. But that wasn't my point. My point is that there's no ****ing way in hell the US is gonna bail out Greece.

[Bereta_Eder]

I believe in duct tape and in Oerdin always being wrong

[Dinner]

That makes a nice catch phrase but I've been right about everything so far, which I frequently am on many topics.

I don't see a workable compromise. Germany has repeatedly said they were willing to make some minor changes but nothing major and the Greek bailout is so unpopular with German voters who ever doesn't have that view won't last past the next election. For the Greeks we have a party of form Marxist idiots who promised the sun, the moon, and the stars in addition to a free puppy for every child. They can't deliver, not even close, they can't pay their bills so it is either comply or get kicked out time. The neo-commies won't remain in power if they abandon their central promise to voters so they are not going to agree with the Germans and will instead drive the car off the cliff just so they can try to blame someone else for the wreck. It is going to be a disaster for Greece but when you vote for stupid people bad things happen so next time consider voting responsibly especially when you are bankrupt and begging for cash.

[Bereta_Eder]

As I said, always wrong

From my point of view these things have happened so far:

The program, as it were, could not be implemented. Pointe finale.
The program was severly flawed.
Syriza IS inexperienced but has a strong democratic mandate so it doesn't care much about it
Germany had its first open and very public rift with Brussels, and for the first time has lost the moral high ground, publicly (in reality this has happened long ago)
There will be a compromise, but that will not save the euro. Negotiations will go on untill June. This is the real crunching date for Greece, financially speaking.
But the euro will eventually not be saved. You're puting bandaids on a gushing wound. People (european people from all over) will dictate the outcome, slowly but certaintly.
and I want a free puppy but I'm afraid it will chew the electric cables or something so no

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW since we're having this nice discussion and since the fate of Iphigeneia was put forth as a paralellism (Greece kicked out and "punished" to serve as an example for other european peoples to be obedient), I checked the myth of Iphigeneia and is really interesting!
So here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphigenia

(Of course I think the sacrifice has already been made and I'm mainly checking the different outcomes of the myth. Interesting reading neverhteless).

[C0ckney]

That makes a nice catch phrase but I've been right about everything so far, which I frequently am on many topics.

[C0ckney]

As I said, always wrong

From my point of view these things have happened so far:

The program, as it were, could not be implemented. Pointe finale.
The program was severly flawed.
Syriza IS inexperienced but has a strong democratic mandate so it doesn't care much about it
Germany had its first open and very public rift with Brussels, and for the first time has lost the moral high ground, publicly (in reality this has happened long ago)
There will be a compromise, but that will not save the euro. Negotiations will go on untill June. This is the real crunching date for Greece, financially speaking.
But the euro will eventually not be saved. You're puting bandaids on a gushing wound. People (european people from all over) will dictate the outcome, slowly but certaintly.
and I want a free puppy but I'm afraid it will chew the electric cables or something so no

exactly. and if it comes down to it, it's certainly better to have the bus crash here rather than continue down the road to nowhere.

the greek government's strategy has revealed some splits in the eurozone and it will be interesting to see how that plays out. it's a clever strategy.

[C0ckney]

the thing that worries me though is that syriza will lose their bottle and then present an ignominious defeat as a 'victory' for the greek people, to keep their pride, or as they will no doubt put it, to pursue the rest of their radical agenda. the problem is that this radical agenda will already have been compromised and made to serve the interests of capital - syriza then going the way of social democrats and liberals everywhere: occupying a political space solely so that no one else can.

if alexis wanted to be really bold, and say knock 100x the value off european equity and bonds than the vindictive treatment of the greek people ever could, he could default, print a few billion drachmas and decree the legal transfer of all immovable property on greece to the greek people: rented houses and other dwellings to their tenants; workplaces, and their stocks, to those working there etc. he should learn from the bolsheviks and their imitators, and instead of trying to take over capitalism in the name of the 'people', dismantle it entirely.

(ok this isn't going to happen, but a man can dream)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Syriza already has somewhat backed away a bit (somewhat unfortunately). The proposal, that Brussels was prepared to accept but Germany wasn't, was that Greece would assume all of the debt and target a certain percentage of budget surpluses, they simply wanted a 6 month period of initiating their economic reforms and then negotiate on a restructuring of the entire debt. It's basically a dream scenario for Germany - they get all their money they got the old regime to agree to, but maybe in a longer time period. But, of course, that would have to allow an anti-austerity party the opportunity to show that anti-austerity can work, and the Germans can't have that.

By rejecting the proposal that just about everyone else was happy with makes Germany looks ridiculous here.

[Imran Siddiqui]

This is where we laugh at Oerdin

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31556754

4 month extension agreed (with the same provisions as the 6mo extension that Germany rejected).

[Hauldren Collider]

The stupidity of Europe never ceases to astound.

[Fake Boris]

Why do you want so badly that people pay their debts several times over? Just curious.

[DinoDoc]

Then default and leave the Euro.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

The saga continues, the question is whether the Greeks got enough or just more of the same, with only cosmetic "favours" in which case they would have been better off to default.

I guess noone really wants to be the fall guy for the whole EU project, at least not yet.