Yet another damn terrorist attack

[Jon Miller]

Yeah, if you're going to rape someone, you have to keep raping the same person. God condoning rape

You are attributing to God the actions and instructions of Moses.

Translation: GOD "Kill all the men and male children, and any woman who is not a virgin. Now you have brutally murdered the virgins' families, rape and forcibly marry, or forcibly marry and rape them. Oh and now you've married them, they're your possessions (slaves) so you can keep on raping them."

MOSES: "Wow, thanks god dude"

GOD: "You're welcome"

You are attributing to God the actions and instructions of Moses.

JM

[Sava]

To Sava, almost everyone other than the people who have lived in the last ~20 years are frightfully evil monsters. The change (and improvement) in behaviour and conscience of the collective population hasn't been do to religion (or even humanism) but is due to people of the last ~20 years just happening be good while almost everyone before just happened to be complete monsters.

Or, he hasn't ever read a history book.

JM

You are making less and less sense. Stop making leaps in logic. You aren't very good at it.

[I AM MOBIUS]

I read this and interpret in a way that allows for rape being morally good (or neutral) as long as you believe god has "impressed" it upon you.

What the hell is stopping you from going on a shooting rampage or something? If you heard a voice that you thought was God, would you do it?

That's what scares me about you JM. The "God" experience is an internal process in the brain. It has been documented (though I'm not going to research and find the support at this time).

Seems like the only thing holding you back from committing or condoning horrible crimes is the belief that God doesn't want you to... right now.

psycho

Funny, that is EXACTLY how I interpret it too...

[Sava]

Funny, that is EXACTLY how I interpret it too...

We should date.

[Jon Miller]

This is my point about the Bible versus the Koran.

The Bible is almost never an instruction manual. It is rather the story of Israel's relationship with God. The significant occasions when the OT is an instruction manual, it is an instruction manual from Moses (who had a relationship with God) and not directly from God.

This is in contrast to the Koran, which is mostly an instruction manual, and is actually an instruction manual from God (And not just from Muhammed who had a relationship with God).

JM

[I AM MOBIUS]

To Sava, almost everyone other than the people who have lived in the last ~20 years are frightfully evil monsters. The change (and improvement) in behaviour and conscience of the collective population hasn't been do to religion (or even humanism) but is due to people of the last ~20 years just happening be good while almost everyone before just happened to be complete monsters.

Or, he hasn't ever read a history book.

JM

Wow, just wow, you have called virtually everyone who ever lived before 1995 an evil monster!

You are ****ed in the head!

[Sava]

The Bible is almost never an instruction manual.

This is in contrast to the Koran, which is mostly an instruction manual

Wrong. Wrong.

Though, if you want to go through step by step and compare passages, designating what is instruction versus story, be my guest.

However, in absence of such a comparative analysis, statements like "almost never" and "mostly" are completely meaningless.

And you're a scientist?

[Imran Siddiqui]

This is my point about the Bible versus the Koran.

The Bible is almost never an instruction manual. It is rather the story of Israel's relationship with God. The significant occasions when the OT is an instruction manual, it is an instruction manual from Moses (who had a relationship with God) and not directly from God.

This is in contrast to the Koran, which is mostly an instruction manual, and is actually an instruction manual from God (And not just from Muhammed who had a relationship with God).

JM

Not really. The Koran is actually filled mostly with stories. There are some instructions within those stories, but its mostly those stories.

[Sava]

Wow, just wow, you have called virtually everyone who ever lived before 1995 an evil monster!

You are ****ed in the head!

I think he was saying I believe in that stuff. But again, his communication skills are so poor, it's hard to tell.

[I AM MOBIUS]

You are attributing to God the actions and instructions of Moses.


You are attributing to God the actions and instructions of Moses.

JM

Yeah, I'll give you that, but Moses is essentially God's messenger, so surely they're on the same page, these are god though:

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT) If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB) If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".

(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

These all sound like an instruction manual: an instruction to murder and rape!

[I AM MOBIUS]

Not really. The Koran is actually filled mostly with stories. There are some instructions within those stories, but its mostly those stories.

Wow, even the religionistas can't even agree - this goes to the root of the point that nobody has a blind clue - it is the blind leading the blind!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Clueless is definitely something I'd say about you, Mobius.

Clueless ****stain - your title is gaining words .

[I AM MOBIUS]

I think he was saying I believe in that stuff. But again, his communication skills are so poor, it's hard to tell.

Yeah OK, I can see how that can be misunderstood! But in my defence, he did say that everyone before Christianity were evil savages

Also, wasn't Christianity's modus operandi in converting the savages to do it forcibly or put them to death - sort of like a forcible mind rape? How very civilised!

[I AM MOBIUS]

Clueless is definitely something I'd say about you, Mobius.

Clueless ****stain - your title is gaining words .

Oh, so when you say you disagree with JM, you're actually agreeing with him?

But hey, instead of addressing my points, just launch into the personal attacks

[Jon Miller]

Not really. The Koran is actually filled mostly with stories. There are some instructions within those stories, but its mostly those stories.

My view is heavily influenced by my muslim friends, most of whom were former muslims at the time I knew them. The one who seemed more interested in talking about Islam viewed it as an instruction manual (the others weren't very interested in talking about it). It shouldn't surprise me that his knowledge of the Koran might be at a similar level as Mobius knowledge of the Bible.

JM
(I actually have a colleague who is a practicing muslim now, I should converse more with him.)