Superman Invades Sofia!

[Serb]

I went to a Russian language school from first grade to eight grade. I was fluent in Russian and was very influenced by Russian culture. Half of my classmates had at least one Russian parent. I like Russia and Russian culture but now I get genuinely sad when I see what is happening in Russia in recent years.

I think you are missing out great opportunities as a nation by looking constantly back in time and focusing on things like pride, fear and anger.

I hate tribalism. I am not looking to be proud of anything that is attributed to my ancestors or people from my tribe. I don't like it when people look back and seek for reasons to be proud or look for revenge. It is totally unproductive, wasteful and can only do harm.

Egregor is egregor, sacred things are sacred things. The people who destroy and desecrate monuments are vandals and motherf*ckers. If you disagree with Russia, protest and insult us any way you like, BUT,
for the God's sake - don't touch our dead, leave the dead soldiers alone. Regardless of your opinion about Russia, about Communism about anything. Just let the soldiers rest in peace. Otherwise you (not you personally, but the West) will see our reaction sooner or later.

And the motherf*cker who have started this thread and who consider himself a Christian thought it's a funny story to tell. He sees nothing wrong about desecration of monuments.

Ёбаный канадский выблядок.

[Bereta_Eder]

Hey Serb. I don't know what egregor means I had to search it.
Apparently It comes from Victor Hugo who tapped into ancient Greek to create it?
Or it is an occult thing??

Wiki says it comes from Γρήγορος? The fast, the awakened and also Hugo took it one step further to mean the protector?


I have no idea

Sad about the monuments. Agree with some parts with sir og and also sometimes the enemy is within

I'd write more but real life obligations won't let me right now

[Serb]

Imagine all fallen Greek heroes watching you from the other side whenever you do something. This is egregor.

[Serb]

It's not an occult thing. Every religion, every nation has its own egregor. It's beyond religion or national identity. It's a part of human nature.

[Bereta_Eder]

Hmm,
if it comes from Ενγρήγορση this would mean to be on your guard, to be awakened, quickened, fast, alert and surveying.

But the way you describe it is like a spirit of your ancestors both surveying you and protecting you and also demanding from you to be alert and honor the things they died for?

I really don't know.

Sir Og, do you have this in Bulgaria too? Do you know it?

[Bereta_Eder]

Anyway I have to go or real life obligations will kill me

But, isn't freedom justice democracy human rights peace blah blah and also HAVING FUN a good mantra?

Serb, go out and have some fun my friend
Leave poly for a while

[Serb]

Hmm,
if it comes from Ενγρήγορση this would mean to be on your guard, to be awakened, quickened, fast, alert and surveying.

But the way you describe it is like a spirit of your ancestors both surveying you and protecting you and also demanding from you to be alert and honor the things they died for?

I really don't know.

Sir Og, do you have this in Bulgaria too? Do you know it?

I'm afraid my English is not good enough to maintain a philosophical debate.
But, anyway, it's not about the spirits of your ancestors protecting you, it's about them surveying you and about YOU protecting them, protecting the ideas and ideals they have fallen for. It's them surveying you being worthy of their legacy or not. It's about you follow their steps or not.

[Serb]

Serb, go out and have some fun my friend
Leave poly for a while

I appear here once a year or something.
I do have a real life, buddy Don't worry.

[Serb]

This is what egregor is. Don't even try to translate it with google, I post it for the few ones who can read Russian:


В тот день, когда окончилась война
И все стволы палили в счет салюта,
В тот час на торжестве была одна
Особая для наших душ минута.

В конце пути, в далекой стороне,
Под гром пальбы прощались мы впервые
Со всеми, что погибли на войне,
Как с мертвыми прощаются живые.

До той поры в душевной глубине
Мы не прощались так бесповоротно.
Мы были с ними как бы наравне,
И разделял нас только лист учетный.

Мы с ними шли дорогою войны
В едином братстве воинском до срока,
Суровой славой их озарены,
От их судьбы всегда неподалеку.

И только здесь, в особый этот миг,
Исполненный величья и печали,
Мы отделялись навсегда от них:
Нас эти залпы с ними разлучали.

Внушала нам стволов ревущих сталь,
Что нам уже не числиться в потерях.
И, кроясь дымкой, он уходит вдаль,
Заполненный товарищами берег.

И, чуя там сквозь толщу дней и лет,
Как нас уносят этих залпов волны,
Они рукой махнуть не смеют вслед,
Не смеют слова вымолвить.Безмолвны.

Вот так, судьбой своею смущены,
Прощались мы на празднике с друзьями.
И с теми, что в последний день войны
Еще в строю стояли вместе с нами;

И с теми, что ее великий путь
Пройти смогли едва наполовину;
И с теми, чьи могилы где-нибудь
Еще у Волги обтекали глиной;

И с теми, что под самою Москвой
В снегах глубоких заняли постели,
В ее предместьях на передовой
Зимою сорок первого;и с теми,

Что, умирая, даже не могли
Рассчитывать на святость их покоя
Последнего, под холмиком земли,
Насыпанном нечуждою рукою.

Со всеми — пусть не равен их удел, —
Кто перед смертью вышел в генералы,
А кто в сержанты выйти не успел -
Такой был срок ему отпущен малый.

Со всеми, отошедшими от нас,
Причастными одной великой сени
Знамен, склоненных, как велит приказ, —
Со всеми, до единого со всеми.

Простились мы.И смолкнул гул пальбы,
И время шло. И с той поры над ними
Березы, вербы, клены и дубы
В который раз листву свою сменили.

Но вновь и вновь появится листва,
И наши дети вырастут и внуки,
А гром пальбы в любые торжества
Напомнит нам о той большой разлуке.

И не за тем, что уговор храним,
Что память полагается такая,
И не за тем, нет, не за тем одним,
Что ветры войн шумят не утихая.

И нам уроки мужества даны
В бессмертье тех, что стали горсткой пыли.
Нет, даже если б жертвы той войны
Последними на этом свете были, —

Смогли б ли мы, оставив их вдали,
Прожить без них в своем отдельном счастье,
Глазами их не видеть их земли
И слухом их не слышать мир отчасти?

И, жизнь пройдя по выпавшей тропе,
В конце концов у смертного порога,
В себе самих не угадать себе
Их одобренья или их упрека!

Что ж, мы трава? Что ж, и они трава?
Нет. Не избыть нам связи обоюдной.
Не мертвых власть, а власть того родства,
Что даже смерти стало неподсудно.

К вам, павшие в той битве мировой
За наше счастье на земле суровой,
К вам, наравне с живыми, голос свой
Я обращаю в каждой песне новой.

Вам не услышать их и не прочесть.
Строка в строку они лежат немыми.
Но вы — мои, вы были с нами здесь,
Вы слышали меня и знали имя.

В безгласный край, в глухой покой земли,
Откуда нет пришедших из разведки,
Вы часть меня с собою унесли
С листка армейской маленькой газетки.

Я ваш, друзья, — и я у вас в долгу,
Как у живых, — я так же вам обязан.
И если я, по слабости, солгу,
Вступлю в тот след, который мне заказан,

Скажу слова, что нету веры в них,
То, не успев их выдать повсеместно,
Еще не зная отклика живых, —
Я ваш укор услышу бессловесный.

Суда живых — не меньше павших суд.
И пусть в душе до дней моих скончанья
Живет, гремит торжественный салют
Победы и великого прощанья.

[Ben Kenobi]

The people who destroy and desecrate monuments are vandals and motherf*ckers.

Interesting. So communism is in fact a religion.

[Elok]

Egregor? Sounds like "egregious." Yes, I'd say many of your ideas could be described as egregious.

[The Mad Monk]

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

Interesting. So communism is in fact a religion.

Maybe for Russians it is.

[Serb]

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

You get it right, MM.

[Sir Og]

This is the first time I hear of Egregore. This definition is slightly more different than what you are explaining http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore
Your definition overlaps too much with tribalism for my liking.

I look at the painting of the monument in the OP as an art installation which replaces one symbol with another symbol. It paints over something which symbolizes our past when we were totally committed to the Soviet Union without watching our own interests and in detriment to our prosperity. The US cultural icons symbolize how the pendulum has swung almost all the way to the over side. With us being subservient again, this time to the western powers, without minding our best interests.
This is the meaning that I put in picture from the OP. I find it thought provoking and interesting. I have never even for a second interpreted this as mocking of the fallen soldiers. (btw as far as I know there were no fallen Russian soldiers in Bulgaria during WW2. there was no fighting here)

What you think of Egregore for me is just stories that people make up so that they can appeal to people's innate tribal instincts. I think those stories do more harm than good most of the time. Especially here in Europe.

All our heroes from the past for example are people who fought the Turks. This is a very unproductive pantheon of heroes to have. Growing up thinking what a good idea it is to fight Turks is really no good in this world we live in. I am not saying that we should not protect ourselves from aggressors or forget our history but the versions of history that we are usually taught are mostly aimed at making us feel good, feel united and giving us some purpose. Unfortunately it is a very bad idea to do this at the expense of some other group of people.
That is why I think generic superheroes like Superman are better than the traditional nationalist superheroes. There is nothing good in fighting and antagonism. It is much better if nobody has to die than to have a super heroic sacrifices.