Drunk Drivers' Rights?

[Dr Strangelove]

This may shock you, but I'm in favor of abolishing licensing and certification of every kind in every profession in the United States. Every medication should be available without prescription.

[Sava]

why's that?

[Ben Kenobi]

You say America should keep its promises

I'm saying that I believe the constitution is the ultimate legal authority and I don't see how medicare or social security are a part of America's constitutional obligations.

while telling people who paid into the system for decades they should get nothing?

Exactly what is wrong with that? It's ok if that happens to us. If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for everyone.

If you get nothing when you retire you got screwed

As opposed to the ass**** I'm receiving now?

Ben endorses stealing billions from the elderly

Are you arguing that America has a duty to pay out Social security? If so, then they have no need to collect anymore money since it was all in a lockbox somewhere.

[Ben Kenobi]

You cant avoid taxes with the Church's wealth,

So you're stating you support wealth taxes?

We pay higher property taxes so your Church doesn't.

This is false. Again - I could just as easily argue that the fact people live where they do is because of the Church. Look at SAN Antonio. Is it just a coincidence that it's named after a Saint? In many cases the Church came first, the city later.

Your job is subsidized by the rest of us

No. My job is sustained by the parents choosing to enroll their children in Catholic school. If tomorrow no parent walked in I would be out of a job.

Unless your wealth is stuffed in a mattress you cant avoid taxes

Read your tax laws.

, even the mattress was taxed. How does one have billions and not get taxed without exemptions from the taxes?

Again, read your tax laws.

And those exemptions mean other people are picking up the slack with higher taxes.

This does not follow. You're assuming the zero-sum game which is unusual for a libertarian. Taxes are not an independent variable from production.

How in the hell do you think the Church got so wealthy without government help?

Christ. Study your history! The church received donations from their parishioners. Voluntary donations. In America, the Church predates the state. Especially in Texas, where the gap is some 100 years.

They've been "subsidized" for ~1700 years.

Why 1700 and not 2000?

What does that have to do with the higher property taxes we pay so your Church doesn't?

Does the state have the right to tax land it never owned?

I'm largely indifferent to Medicare, I'm not a beneficiary and I have little desire to tell old people they're screwed because you dont like paying taxes. You have no problem making the rest of us pay for what you want.

You're a libertarian and ok with involuntary wealth redistribution? Wow. Says it all, really.

Your "say" was the right to make everybody's decisions about how they live.

Insofar as I'm being held responsible for paying for their medicine, yes I am. Here's an idea, how about everyone pay for their own stuff?

Pot is prohibited

It's a controlled drug.

, calling it "controlled" is a distinction without a difference.

It's an important distinction. Nobody is arguing that alcohol shouldn't be a controlled drug either. Unless you're arguing that sales to children ought to be ok, too.

There was no constitutional amendment to prohibit or "control" pot and I just said booze was prohibited with an amendment.

So unless there's a constitutional amendment barring it this makes it ok to engage in illegal behavior?

The court said Obamacare is constitutional

The court just said in hobby lobby that the mandate is unconstitutional.

, it doesn't need an amendment.

Yeah, it does.

I imagine the court ruled Medicare constitutional as well. Do I agree with them? No...

Then why are you busting my balls over medicare if you believe it's unconstitutional?

It was Bush's judge who gave Obamacare his blessing

Does that mean you support Buck vs Bell, because the court 8-1 found involuntarily sterilization of disabled people constitutional?

Some fought wars, some didn't - most were defending themselves.

So does this mean you support Israel's right to exist as well?

Many had treaties for land that were negated. No promise for you!

When were these 'treaties' signed?

So are the military, roads, border control, courts, Congress, libraries

Yes, it's what makes these things socialism, yes. The fact that their expenses are bourne by the taxpayer and not the individual.

I dont think you know what socialism means (I'm no expert myself),

Medicare is considered to be socialized medicine. This is not controversial.

Socialism is the state owning the health care system

Medicare is state run, owned and operated.

[Sava]

Do you answer a question with an irrelevant question because you think people won't notice? As if deflecting somehow means you aren't wrong?

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you answer a question with an irrelevant question because you think people won't notice? As if deflecting somehow means you aren't wrong?

Is there a specific question that you feel I did not adequately challenge?

[Sava]

You can start with the reply right before mine.

First question. Dodged.

Second question. Your response had nothing to do with what you were responding to....

i stopped reading after that

imran kinda wore me out

you could fail at knowing what the word "that" means at this point and i wouldnt care

[Ben Kenobi]

Hmm? Berz dodged my question. I asked him since he was arguing that the Catholic church had excessive wealth that should be taxed if he supported wealth taxes.

Personally, he sounds like a straight up communist. Does Pot smoking turn you commie?

[Sava]

Personally, he sounds like a straight up communist.

Where does Berz advocate for the dissolution of the private market and the government ownership/takeover of all industries?

Quote where Berz said that.

[Dr Strangelove]

why's that?

I've got family.

[Berzerker]

This may shock you, but I'm in favor of abolishing licensing and certification of every kind in every profession in the United States. Every medication should be available without prescription.

I agree with that, if we gotta have an FDA they can advise us but not dictate

Exactly what is wrong with that? It's ok if that happens to us. If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for everyone.

They paid into the system, you say the system should steal their money because you're in the system too.

Are you arguing that America has a duty to pay out Social security? If so, then they have no need to collect anymore money since it was all in a lockbox somewhere.

Yes, and there is no lockbox

So you're stating you support wealth taxes?

No, where'd I say that?

This is false. Again - I could just as easily argue that the fact people live where they do is because of the Church. Look at SAN Antonio. Is it just a coincidence that it's named after a Saint? In many cases the Church came first, the city later.

Gee, San Antonio proves the Catholic Church pays property taxes just like the rest of us. That BS Ben, your Church has been on welfare for ever. Just stop it, telling us we dont subsidize your Church is insulting.

No. My job is sustained by the parents choosing to enroll their children in Catholic school. If tomorrow no parent walked in I would be out of a job.

Your job exists because you joined a criminal syndicate that has spent centuries accumulating wealth taken from other people. Voluntary donations my ass!

This does not follow. You're assuming the zero-sum game which is unusual for a libertarian. Taxes are not an independent variable from production.

You shouldn't be talking for libertarians or anyone but your self. If the Catholic Church was paying the taxes the rest of us are paying, our rate would come down and it's rate would go up. This is not rocket science, but it is an inconvenient truth for you.

Christ. Study your history! The church received donations from their parishioners. Voluntary donations. In America, the Church predates the state. Especially in Texas, where the gap is some 100 years.

Your Church has been robbing people for centuries, selling them on a scam and torturing and murdering dissenters.

Why 1700 and not 2000?

Why not?

Does the state have the right to tax land it never owned?

You keep confusing rights with powers, now whats that got to do with the subsidies the Church gets?

You're a libertarian and ok with involuntary wealth redistribution? Wow. Says it all, really.

I said I was largely indifferent to Medicare, but people have been paying into the program just like you. If you spent the next 4 decades paying into it and some youngster walked up and tried to shut the program down you'd be reacting differently. And most of our taxes are redistributed, at least SS and Medicare will ostensibly pay us back something.

Insofar as I'm being held responsible for paying for their medicine, yes I am. Here's an idea, how about everyone pay for their own stuff?

That aint happening, so defend your argument. You claimed the right to decide how everyone lives and you've been trying to change the subject ever since.

It's a controlled drug.

Where does the Constitution mention controlled drugs?

So unless there's a constitutional amendment barring it this makes it ok to engage in illegal behavior?

The Feds cant make it illegal without an amendment

The court just said in hobby lobby that the mandate is unconstitutional.

Thats just one feature of Obamacare, the court already said Congress has the power to tax us for health care.

Then why are you busting my balls over medicare if you believe it's unconstitutional?

Jesus H Christ, you accused me of taking your money for my Medicare, then you said the fact you got a paystub deduction for Medicare gives you the right to make every effing decision about how we live, and you cant understand why I'm giving you ****?

Yes, it's what makes these things socialism, yes. The fact that their expenses are bourne by the taxpayer and not the individual.

So you are a socialist

Medicare is considered to be socialized medicine. This is not controversial.

Considered by people who dont know the meaning of the word

Medicare is state run, owned and operated.

No it isn't, the providers are private medical staff. All Congress does is pay the bill just like insurance...

Hmm? Berz dodged my question. I asked him since he was arguing that the Catholic church had excessive wealth that should be taxed if he supported wealth taxes.

I didn't say any of that, I said you cant avoid taxes with that kind of wealth. Not without exemptions, and your Church gets exemptions.

Personally, he sounds like a straight up communist. Does Pot smoking turn you commie?

And yet you're the only one here claiming a right to make all of our decisions

[Ben Kenobi]

Where does Berz advocate for the dissolution of the private market and the government ownership/takeover of all industries?

Wealth taxes are a hallmark of communism.

[Ben Kenobi]

They paid into the system, you say the system should steal their money because you're in the system too.

It's stealing from me, and will collapse before I collect anything. So yeah. If ****ing me over is good enough for me and 'I should just accept it', then they should get ****ed over too.

Yes, and there is no lockbox

Then they have no right to collect from me to pay for money they already spent. It's a Ponzi scheme.

No, where'd I say that?

Then why are you arguing that the wealth of the Catholic church should be taxed?

Gee, San Antonio proves the Catholic Church pays property taxes just like the rest of us.

Again, who would the Catholic church pay to? It was there before the US formed, it was there before the entire city was incorporated.

your Church has been on welfare for ever.

LOL The Catholic church predates the US and every city founded in the United States. In many cases, the Church had towns built around it, not the other way around.

Just stop it, telling us we dont subsidize your Church is insulting.

The church came first.

Your job exists because you joined a criminal syndicate that has spent centuries accumulating wealth taken from other people. Voluntary donations my ass!

Yeah, voluntary donations from parents. Get it through your skull, Berz. I work for a private enterprise. I'll keep pounding it through and maybe it will get through your skull.

You shouldn't be talking for libertarians or anyone but your self.

Libertarians do not believe in the zero sum. Communists on the other hand, do. You're parroting Marx here, Berz.

If the Catholic Church was paying the taxes the rest of us are paying, our rate would come down and it's rate would go up.

So why not raise property taxes on everyone? This is the zero sum, Berz. Economically, this argument does not work. Taxes are not an independent variable from production. Raise taxes, production goes down. Lower taxes, production goes up.

This is not rocket science, but it is an inconvenient truth for you.

I have economics on my side, Berz. All you have is Marxist crap.

Your Church has been robbing people for centuries, selling them on a scam and torturing and murdering dissenters.

Wow, Grand wizard indeed.

Why not?

Answer the question, Berz. Why 1700 and not 2000?

You keep confusing rights with powers, now whats that got to do with the subsidies the Church gets?

The fact that the Church was there first is an argument against the taxation of a pre-existing entity. The state of Texas never owned that land before the Catholic church owned it. Same with the United States as a whole.

I said I was largely indifferent to Medicare, but people have been paying into the program just like you.

That doesn't make it right, or sustainable in the long term. When it goes bankrupt what are you going to say? That it was ok?

some youngster walked up and tried to shut the program down you'd be reacting differently.

No, I wouldn't I would cheer!

And most of our taxes are redistributed, at least SS and Medicare will ostensibly pay us back something.

So you're ok with taxes so long as you get kickbacks? Wow. Turn in your libertarian card, Berz.

That aint happening

We have no choice, Berz. There's more of you than there are of us, and we ain't making enough to pay for all of it. You'd have to tax us at 100+ percent to maintain all the promises.

Which - I suppose might be tried, but it won't happen. We'll all just work off the books.

, so defend your argument. You claimed the right to decide how everyone lives and you've been trying to change the subject ever since.

Both programs are dead. Best to kill them off now that wait for a catastrophe later.

Where does the Constitution mention controlled drugs?

Where does the constitution mention the free exercise of toking?

So unless there's a constitutional amendment barring it this makes it ok to engage in illegal behavior? The Feds cant make it illegal without an amendment

Congress has the right to pass laws unless the constitution explicitly forbears it.

Thats just one feature of Obamacare

The law as passed isn't severable. Which means if one part of it is toast, the entire law is toast.

, the court already said Congress has the power to tax us for health care.

And it exempts people from the mandate. Obamacare is toast, they can't arrest people for not paying.

you got a paystub deduction for Medicare gives you the right to make every effing decision about how we live, and you cant understand why I'm giving you ****?

You can't understand why I'm giving you **** over robbing me and saying, "I'm indifferent to it because I'm collecting off of it?"

So you are a socialist

How? I'm the one arguing the constitution takes precedence over the goodie train.

Considered by people who dont know the meaning of the word

Wow, now that's a compelling argument. "It's not socialism because I say it ain't". Do I really need to quote some of your libertarian colleagues?

No it isn't

Yes, it is. You're gravely misinformed, Berz. Medicare is state run, owned and financed.

All Congress does is pay the bill just like insurance

*sigh*. Berz, they collect at gunpoint from everyone and pay out to certain beneficiaries. It's no different than welfare, except that it tends to redistribute from those who are well-off from those who are poor. SS is even worse, it's explicitly designed to take from poor people and pay to the wealthiest subsection of the population.

I said you cant avoid taxes with that kind of wealth.

Read your tax laws, yes you can.

Not without exemptions, and your Church gets exemptions.

Again read your own tax laws.

And yet you're the only one here claiming a right to make all of our decisions

Tax my ass off and I get a say. Don't want me having a say, don't tax my ass off.

[rah]

Ben please stop whining about paying into SS until you've been responsible for over a quarter of a million dollars in contributions then have to listen to some little douche saying you should just get over it.
Think you're getting screwed now, just wait.

What have you paid into the system so far? Based all your posts about that you don't make much money, probably not very much.

[Berzerker]

Wealth taxes are a hallmark of communism.

you didn't answer Sava and you didn't quote me supporting wealth taxes, you just made it up

Then why are you arguing that the wealth of the Catholic church should be taxed?

I didn't say it should be taxed, you made that up too...

Where does the constitution mention the free exercise of toking?

Same place it says you can read the Bible, the 1st Amendment - religious freedom. Now answer the question, where in the Constitution does it say Congress can control pot?