Ashers Baking Company: 'Gay cake' row could end up in court

[Sava]

It's more fun calling Elok out for being a fake Christian than BK. He actually has pride in his fake Christianity. BK isn't under any such illusions. He knows he sucks.

[Elok]

the comparison seems valid, at least on one level: members of the oppressed group standing up to the bigots, and sending a message that their bigotry is socially unacceptable; although of course the means are different.

Oppressed? Okay, maybe in Northern Ireland, though from the sound of things in the article I doubt it. But there have been comparable cases over here, where the left effectively won the war on this front a couple of years ago; using the law to push a small business around is just rubbing their faces in it. They don't want to bake the damn cake--there's no evidence that this has caused any real harm, or that their side will do anything but wane over the coming years. The specter of gay people living in a kind of straight apartheid state, or stranded because no gas station will serve them, etc. is absurd. This isn't about rights, just enforcing compliance with social orthodoxy.

And before you ask, if the proprietors of the Aryan Bakery don't want to bake for black people, yeah, fine, whatever.

[Sava]

You make me sick.

[Sava]

Trolling aside, you are a complete moral failure, Elok. That sad thing is, you probably think you are a good person.

[Sava]

... and a coward to boot

so edgy with your lack of empathy

how can I be as cool as you?

[MOBIUS]

I bet you practice for hours, Sava...

[C0ckney]

Oppressed? Okay, maybe in Northern Ireland, though from the sound of things in the article I doubt it. But there have been comparable cases over here, where the left effectively won the war on this front a couple of years ago; using the law to push a small business around is just rubbing their faces in it. They don't want to bake the damn cake--there's no evidence that this has caused any real harm, or that their side will do anything but wane over the coming years. The specter of gay people living in a kind of straight apartheid state, or stranded because no gas station will serve them, etc. is absurd. This isn't about rights, just enforcing compliance with social orthodoxy.

And before you ask, if the proprietors of the Aryan Bakery don't want to bake for black people, yeah, fine, whatever.

at least that's consistent, but you were the one who said the comparison with civil rights wasn't valid, when in fact it appears to be a very similar situation: people being refused service on the basis of who they are (although i suppose you could argue that it was the cake which was the problem rather the fact the customers were gay - i don't think it's a very convincing argument though in this case).

they're not being forced to bake the cake, the bakery refused, gave a refund and the customer went to another bakery who were happy to bake it. clearly the issue is about discrimination and rights: do businesses have a right to refuse service based on sexual orientation (or race, gender, age, political views, religion etc.)?

if we want to talk about harm, then i think the greater harm is caused by allowing this kind of discrimination.

[Sava]

I bet you practice for hours, Sava...

indeed, my post history is proof of that

[Ben Kenobi]

Similar to how blacks and whites did sit-ins in diners during the Civil Rights movement, to force integration in those places, and - GASP - have servers who don't like them grudgingly prepare food for them.

The Baker would have been more than happy to take their money and prepare a plain cake. This is open and shut first amendment issue. The Baker has a right not to write things that he doesn't like on his cake in his place of business, or things that will be harmful to his reputation as a Christian store.

If you believe that there's a serious lack of access for 'rainbow friendly baking', I suggest opening up a store catering to this. Isn't that the American way of doing things?

Good luck, Mr. Fun.

[Ben Kenobi]

people being refused service on the basis of who they are (although i suppose you could argue that it was the cake which was the problem rather the fact the customers were gay - i don't think it's a very convincing argument though in this case).

Had they requested a plain cake would they have been denied service? See, that's the crucial point. They weren't being denied service for who they are, they were denied service for what they were asking for. Had he asked for a KKKake, he probably would have been denied service too. A business is not compelled to do things contrary to their reputation and public image.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes we have. You're a racist.

Gay people are a race?

[Sava]

Do you think you do yourself any favors?

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you think you do yourself any favors?

I'm not the one suing a business that actually refunded my money.

If a business does something that I don't like, I actually *gasp*, go somewhere else.

[MOBIUS]

Gay people are a race?

Wow, you are stupid aren't you - how do you get by in life?

[rah]

Based on his posts here, I would say he doesn't