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**N35t0r** · June 30, 2014, 11:01

No, sometimes he's correct on the date, for example.

**Ming** · June 30, 2014, 11:17

Originally posted by N35t0r View Post

No, sometimes he's correct on the date, for example.

That's why I said "usually" and not always.

**N35t0r** · June 30, 2014, 13:17

I was replying to Ken.

**Ben Kenobi** · June 30, 2014, 14:39

Minimum wage as the sole driver of inflation is one of the obviously wrong explanations.

Still doesn't change the fact that it's a contributor to greater inflation.

**pchang** · June 30, 2014, 14:42

Originally posted by C0ckney View Post

for me it's not a case of us waiting passively for something to happen, but rather organising ourselves to demand and bring about the changes which will make that society possible.

of course i accept that this is unlikely to happen given the current context, and so i support measures, such as this one, which will improve the material conditions of the workers.

After he lost an election, a politician once said, "The people have spoken, the bastards!"

The people, through their actions and inactions, have created our current circumstances. We'll have to see who is more successful at shaping the future.

**C0ckney** · June 30, 2014, 15:10

well that's true as far as it goes, but some people have far more influence than others. therefore the only way that the more numerous, but less (individually) powerful, can hope to influence events and thus shape the contexts in which we live, is through mass collective action.

**Sir Og** · June 30, 2014, 17:18

Originally posted by pchang View Post

After he lost an election, a politician once said, "The people have spoken, the bastards!"

The people, through their actions and inactions, have created our current circumstances. We'll have to see who is more successful at shaping the future.

This.

The masses have all the tools necessary to impose their will on the x% (for x being a fairly small number). We have now social media and crowdfundig. The sky is the limit to what large groups of people can do if they are on the same page.

**Dinner** · June 30, 2014, 17:56

The big problem is corruption of the government process via unlimited funds from lobbyists. This is especially true in America.

**GePap** · June 30, 2014, 23:12

I liked the article myself.

Also, gone four years, and the discussions are still the same, as are the dramatis personae

**Dinner** · June 30, 2014, 23:33

Think of me as a steady rock in a world filled with storms and turbulations.

BTW good to see you again, Gepap, we'll have to go out for beers in NYC again some time. Are you still working for the public defender's office?

**GePap** · June 30, 2014, 23:36

Originally posted by Dinner View Post

Think of me as a steady rock in a world filled with storms and turbulations.

BTW good to see you again, Gepap, we'll have to go out for beers in NYC again some time. Are you still working for the public defender's office?

Used to be the Civil Complaint Review Board, and actually I have been in exile in Albany for a few years working in our State's highly corrupt and dysfunctional Legislature. At least we have a lovely Capitol building and I get to work in it.

**Dinner** · June 30, 2014, 23:40

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post

Still doesn't change the fact that it's a contributor to greater inflation.

That's the thing, it is really not, I still oppose a minimum wage but it just isn't a great cause of inflation especially since most things are now made over seas in places like China where the average hourly wage is below $0.60 per hour with no benefits. The fact that the vast, vast majority of workers already make more than the minimum wage just goes to show how little effect it would have on inflation. Personally, I'd like to see a massively increased earned income tax credit (move it up to $10k to $15k per year and pay for it via restoring the upper income tax brackets Republicans have eliminated in the last 30 years; it would cost less than 10 fighter planes per year) and an eliminated minimum wage but that doesn't change the fact that you've been completely wrong on just about everything you've posted in this thread.

**Ben Kenobi** · June 30, 2014, 23:55

That's the thing, it is really not

It's the greatest determinant of inflation over time. Inelastic goods will increase in lockstep with the increase in money supply.

it just isn't a great cause of inflation especially since most things are now made over seas in places like China where the average hourly wage is below $0.60 per hour

It's just supply and demand. More dollars mean that each individual dollar will be worth less. What it does benefit is those who owe money because they owe in depleted dollars.

The fact that the vast, vast majority of workers already make more than the minimum wage just goes to show how little effect it would have on inflation.

The data shows the opposite. Increases in minimum wage fall away as inflation eats it up.

Personally, I'd like to see a massively increased earned income tax credit (move it up to $10k to $15k per year and pay for it via restoring the upper income tax brackets Republicans have eliminated in the last 30 years

Pay for what? We're already 1 billion in the hole without massively increasing benefits. Raising the brackets won't raise enough to cover the current deficit let alone increased spending.

an eliminated minimum wage but that doesn't change the fact that you've been completely wrong on just about everything you've posted in this thread.

I'd much prefer they eliminated minimum wage and let the market determine things. I would open up a lot of jobs that currently go unfilled.

**Jon Miller** · July 1, 2014, 00:03

Studies:

Page not found - Center for Economic and Policy Research

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/cepr-blog/raising-the-minimum-wage-does-not-kill-jobs-preliminary-evidence-from-2014

Minimum & Living Wage - National Employment Law Project - Every Job Should Pay a Living Wage

http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/job-loss

NELP is fighting for higher wages that people and families can live and thrive on

Commentary:

Raising the Minimum Wage: Old Shibboleths, New Evidence

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/raising-the-minimum-wage-old-shibboleths-new-evidence/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

The evidence is clear that a higher minimum wage would reduce poverty, increase consumer spending and have scant impact on employment, an economist writes.

The argument in the floor

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21567072-evidence-mounting-moderate-minimum-wages-can-do-more-good-harm

Evidence is mounting that moderate minimum wages can do more good than harm

The logical floor

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21591593-moderate-minimum-wages-do-more-good-harm-they-should-be-set-technocrats-not

Moderate minimum wages do more good than harm. They should be set by technocrats not politicians

Basically, it is a complicated effect and while at some point it would be a serious negative, it isn't at the places where governments are considering minimum wage.

JM

**Bereta_Eder** · July 1, 2014, 03:16

The english speaking trailer is not as good as the original one ( I don't know why they have to dumb things down and make it look like a hollywood idiocy) but I assume the film itself remains the same.
Great movie. And the answer is at the end of it.

(ok and original trailer for french speakers)

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