Palestinian Christians Refuse To Be Pushed Off Their Land

[Dinner]

Settlement in Israel? This is happening in the West Bank, not Israel. For all this talk of treaties and law by oerdin and ben there is complete disregard for the lehal limits of Israel and the existence of Palestine as per the 1947 treaty.

Who gives a **** about the 1947 border? Only stupid people. Any final two state solution must take into account facts on the ground including where people actually live today. Don't like it? Tough ****. The worthless Palestinians have no one to blame but themselves for refusing to make peace sooner and I feel it is completely just that they pay a price for their refusal to make peace when several valid and perfectly acceptable offers have been made. The longer they want to drag it out, the less and less land they get.

My gives a **** is broken wrt the Palestinians.

[Fake Boris]

Moron.

[The Mad Monk]

That's fine, Oerdin, but what does that have to do with documented landowners trying to work within the system and getting nothing but abuse in return?

[Ben Kenobi]

So, if I'm getting this right, your family were catholics but weren't practising nor did they imbued you with the faith.

That's actually not true. My great grandparents on my father's father's side were very faithful German Catholics. It is my grandparents, my grandfather, my dad's dad who did not practice. My grandmother, my dad's mom who is an English Canadian, was a Baptist. My mother's side is a combination of Lutherans from Scandinavia and Church of England. I was baptized Church of England, but my mother and father left there when I was 7.

Also I had the erroneous idea that you were english not canadian.

Well, I'm English Canadian as opposed to French.

Then you were an atheist, then you espouced some form of protestantism and finally settled on catholicism.

Yes, most of that was from when I was 19 to about when I was 24 when I became Catholic. I've been Catholic now for nearly a decade.

It's true that it does give you a strong sense of community and that in a way it is rigid.
I suppose if that's what you were looking for then ok.

Yes, I was looking for the community. I met some very strong Catholics in university who are some of my closest friends today - so it wasn't just out of the blue. I was working with them and living with them in my dorm and it made a big impression on me. Even before I eventually converted.

I was a catechumen from 2004 to 2005, for two years - you can see some of that progression in my early posts here on Off topic.

[Ben Kenobi]

Although islam offers what you are looking for in a much stronger degree. Would you be opposed to it because it is not western?
The sense of community seems to be massive and modern society is not something they cherish for the most part.

I like western society, I am not a fan of modernism. If I thought the problem lay within Western society and culture, I could see it, but that's not what I see. I read and I see plenty of my thoughts expressed by folks all throughout the west. Just not the modernists.

Two, there are serious theological issues with Islam. I believe that Jesus Christ really did live, that he really was the Son of God and came to earth to save us from our sins. When I was an atheist, I had an opportunity to read the Gospel and the claims there are very strong. Islam, yes, I did have to go through what they claim, and it just didn't make much sense. They claim that scripture is corrupted.

Three, after 9/11? It hammered home to me (I became a Christian in March of 2001), that Islam is not a religion of peace.

[C0ckney]

That's fine, Oerdin, but what does that have to do with documented landowners trying to work within the system and getting nothing but abuse in return?

i think oerdin makes it pretty obvious. they're 'worthless palestinians' after all.

[Dinner]

i think oerdin makes it pretty obvious. they're 'worthless palestinians' after all.

Indeed. I stopped giving a **** about them when they rejected the very good peace deal Clinton brokered and instead said they supported terrorism to "win"; voting for Hamas. The truly final straw, where I decided they deserved any abuse heaped upon them, was when I saw pictures of them dancing in the streets upon hearing about 9/11. Now, my position is "f'em they deserve it".

The hard truth is there is going to have to be another population exchange anyway way just like in the 1940's. The final lines will have to be drawn and each group will have to go to their side of the line no matter who owns what in the past. It will have to be both groups because Israeli withdrawl doesn't accomplish anything but increased Palestinian terrorism so next time it will have to be final borders and complete expulsion of any of the other ethnic group no matter what citizenship they hold. That's the only way a two state solution would ever work. So, no, this one family's land claim doesn't mean jack as there will have to be a lot more people uprooted and having their land lost from people on both sides.

[Ben Kenobi]

There already is a two state solution. It's called Jordan.

[DinoDoc]

Why should we sacrifice the survival of an American ally to appease extremists?

[regexcellent]

Who gives a **** about the 1947 border? Only stupid people. Any final two state solution must take into account facts on the ground including where people actually live today. Don't like it? Tough ****. The worthless Palestinians have no one to blame but themselves for refusing to make peace sooner and I feel it is completely just that they pay a price for their refusal to make peace when several valid and perfectly acceptable offers have been made. The longer they want to drag it out, the less and less land they get.

My gives a **** is broken wrt the Palestinians.

This, and more to the point they weren't happy with the 1947 borders in 1947 and we have no reason to believe that they'd be happy with them now. On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence that they would find the less defensible borders an opportunity to finally wipe out the Jews in the Middle East.

The idea that from a foreign policy realism perspective we should just throw Israel to the wolves is equally retarded, since none of the Arab countries actually give a **** about Israel or the Palestinians; they hate the Palestinians, they find the existence of extremist groups threatening to their autocratic rule, and Israel's just a convenient boogeyman to blame all their internal woes on.

There already is a two state solution. It's called Jordan.

It is instructive that neither Jordan nor Egypt wants anything to do with the Palestinians and both actively work to assist Israel in undermining Hamas in both territories.

[Hauldren Collider]

Man, I'm not even gonna get into this ****ting contest with the board's resident anti-semites, but I'm just gonna say this: If there's some sort of contest going on in the middle east between the Arabs and Jews, bet on the Jews.

Oh yeah also most Arab Christians in Israel support Israel. The whole "christian" line is rather sad, since it seems to be resigning to the fact that no one's gonna give a **** if it's Arab muslims.

[Al B. Sure!]

There is so much prejudice and hate in this thread

[Felch]

Man, I'm not even gonna get into this ****ting contest with the board's resident anti-semites, but I'm just gonna say this: If there's some sort of contest going on in the middle east between the Arabs and Jews, bet on the Jews.

That's cool for you. For me, whenever there's anything between Christians and non-Christians, I side with the Christians.

I'm not going to pretend that isn't prejudiced, but I know what side I'm on.

[The Mad Monk]

Why should we sacrifice the survival of an American ally to appease extremists?

WHY IS THIS EVEN IN THIS THREAD?

[DinoDoc]

WHY IS THIS EVEN IN THIS THREAD?

I replied to an idiotic argument from Ben.