The GOP eats its own

[Ben Kenobi]

Yeeeeah, I'm not really going to take Jilette's word on it.

Bill "blowjob" Clinton as the most religious president? Now why might an atheist claim that?

[Ben Kenobi]

Has anyone considered the possiblity that this crazy Tea Partier just might lose this district for the GOP?

Aside from only every democrat on the forum? No.

[Ben Kenobi]

Once you understand that their white nationalist class warfare becomes much more understandable (and make no mistake racism is the PRIMARY motivation for the far right in America).

White people are actually the least concentrated voting block in America.

[Ben Kenobi]

properly should have very little to do with each other.

I would argue they should have everything to do with one another. Fiscal conservativism is an outgrowth of thrift and last I checked, most social conservatives and religions hold thrift as a virtue.

The same is true the other way. Families that stay together and look after each other are less of a burden on the public than broken families. Ergo - if one is fiscally conservative, one should also value traditional marriage and social conservative ideals.

My experience has been that conservatives that preach fiscal conservativism but not social conservativism invariably support the expansion of government.

[Ben Kenobi]

3. Gay marriage is basically a done deal at this point. That galvanized opposition to traditional Xian views on sexuality, together with Xianity itself. The outrage will die down some--some denominations may cave and grow gay-tolerant, others will hold tight and be marginalized for a while until the fickle public moves on--and there will be a different fight to mobilize people looking for an idealistic clash. What, I don't know. Transgender rights, possibly, but basically all other aspects of Christian sexual and social morality have been eroded away. There's just not much left to fight over.

So quit then and stop calling yourself a practicing Christian. I'm surprised your wife would complain about 'lukewarm Catholics'.

Do you not see what Christ says about marriage, or do you simply believe that Matthew 19 doesn't apply to you or the modern world today?

[AAAAAAAAH!]

ben needs a post count reduction.

[DinoDoc]

molly is the greater offender here.

[Uncle Sparky]

At least molly is usually accurate and interesting...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Also, community is about far more than communication. I can talk with you guys plenty, but if I need a favor in real space, I'm too far away for most of you to do much help. You don't watch my kids for me in emergencies, we don't meet regularly over dinner, we're not united by physical proximity. And modern methods of communication are increasingly fragmentary and evanescent. I don't think they satisfy the same need for belonging. But things are changing too fast to know for sure what will happen.

This, a million times over! Its funny, I wasn't really sure about this community thing. It may be because the US is sooo clinging to its individualism, but it wasn't until a few years ago that I saw the immense value of community, which started in the local pub. Everyone was around the area (a few miles) and there outgrew a sense of friendship in knowing that we are all members of the same community and there to help each other out when needed. It was more emphasized when I became a Christian and the idea of helping out people from your community became more emphasized. Unfortunately the old pub has closed and that communal spot hasn't been really taken up by another (there is a local hangout, but the bar their is small and its a pizza place as opposed to a place that has decent bar food, oh well). That feeling of a place where the community can take up is still missing from the neighborhood (and we still talk of how we miss it). Sure we stay in touch with each other over Facebook and see each other once in a blue moon at the new place, but it isn't the same.

Church tends to have that ideal in another way (it's also a different community - but we're Lutheran, so we like to drink just as much if not more ). There is a feeling of second family there - people there to commune with and who will be there when you need them. We are exploring ways to expand more into the local community - make the church fully integrated with our neighbors. Maybe it'll work, maybe it'll won't - but we gotta try. It's our mission, to spread God's love, and God's love gets fully realized within the community of God.

[C0ckney]

elok: i think you make a good point about a boom and bust cycle. we can see something like that happening with islam at the moment. however, i would say that for this renewal to take place, there must be something for it to work with, that a certain level of belief, participation and indeed cultural and social relevance must exist. the church (regardless of denomination) in europe has gone from being an important and in many cases dominant social force, to being a minor or even in some places, an irrelevant one. this is as true, or even more so, in 'high culture' or intellectual circles, than in popular culture. it seems from what you say, that in america things are different and that religion has retained some of its social and cultural power.

elok and imran: my point about mass communication, mass culture and mass transport (which i should perhaps call "mass travel" as i'm not really talking about buses, trams and trains inside a particular urban environment), was not that community is unimportant, or that i think such changes are all positive, but simply that these things have changed and are changing the way in which we interact with each other. we have more choice over whom we interact with, and this will often mean that we forgo interactions people in our locality, in favour of people with whom we have more in common, but who live further away. there's also the fact that if people can have a social life through facebook et al, some will prefer this to a social life based on 'real' interaction. inevitably these developments have changed and will change the traditional places of social intercourse, be that the church or the pub or whatever. it's a question of adaptation to changing circumstances and contexts.

[kentonio]

but it wasn't until a few years ago that I saw the immense value of community, which started in the local pub.

The heart of every strong community.

[Sava]

I would have picked a different body part.

[MrFun]

Basically, what Elok is saying, is that there is no such thing as racism in America today.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

That may be the worst attempt at paraphrase ever made.

[Dinner]

I still think it is hilarious that Cantor got done in by the monster he helped create. That's just classic justice.