Israeli bigotry

[Bereta_Eder]

When in the island of Zante (Zakynthos), the german occupiers asked the mayor to supply them with a list with all the greek jews of the island, the mayor gave them a paper.
On it, there were just two names. His and that of the leader of the orthodox parish of the island.

Having said that,
watch this

anti-semetism seems ingrained in the christian churches. I'd find it odd if there wasn't some collaboration.
OTOH, first comes the human relation between people, so I imagine there are countless examples of people risking their lives and hiding their neighboors in cellars, for months.

I don't want to denigrate anyone and surely there are enough examples to go round, but what you call "Antisemitism" I think I only encoured once in my entourage. From a devout catholic (who was a great kid) but in a short discussion about jews he spoke against them with paralyzing certaintly.
I always found this odd and completely out of character for him.

[molly bloom]

Yes, all of that is true. Regardless, the Holocaust was perpetrated by Hitler and the Nazis, not Christianity.

Were Hitler and the Nazis Buddhists ? Animists ? Muslims ? Was it Taoist thought that shaped their lives ?


No, no, Nanette.

[molly bloom]

You're an idiot.

Don't speak too soon. You should include yourself in any accusations of idiocy. Perhaps ignorance would be more accurate, but both apply in this instance.

The Catholic Church (and Karol Jozef Wojtyla, later Pope JPII in particular) was deeply involved in protecting the Jews during the Holocaust.

In Slovakia under Monsignor Tiso, perhaps ? In Austria, through the auspices of Bishop Hudal, who couldn't see any difference between Christian teaching and Nazi racial ideology ?

There was an awful lot more that the Catholic Church could and should have done to save the Jews of Europe. But it didn't. It's adherents actively and joyously participated in the murder of Jews and Roma and Communists from France to Lithuania, Italy to Norway.

If we want to demarcate groups why not blame the holocaust on 'Germans', 'whites'

Because the acts were perpetrated by French, Italians, Germans, Austrians, Baltic Germans, Dutch people and so on. The common link is a tradition of antisemitism ingrained in Christianity.

[Lorizael]

Because the acts were perpetrated by French, Italians, Germans, Austrians, Baltic Germans, Dutch people and so on.

Europeans, then. ****ing Europeans.

[Dinner]

You're an idiot. The Catholic Church (and Karol Jozef Wojtyla, later Pope JPII in particular) was deeply involved in protecting the Jews during the Holocaust. A huge number of Catholic clergymen are recognized as Righteous Among the Nations at Yad Vashem.

Again, read Hitler's Pope. Pope Pius XII was pretty antisemetic on his own and he did a number of things which actively helped the Nazis. Part of this was also Pius XII was fanatically anti-communist and he bought into the idea that if the Nazis defeated the USSR then no matter how bad the Nazis were they'd still be better than the communists.

It's that sort of thinking which lead them to cooperate with the Nazis by doing things like opening Church baptism records to help identify Jewish people and atheists.

[Ben Kenobi]

The common link is a tradition of antisemitism ingrained in Christianity.

If anti-Semitism originated with Christianity, it must have been that Jews had a happy fun time in Israel before Christ.

[Ben Kenobi]

Again, read Hitler's Pope. Pope Pius XII was pretty antisemetic on his own

The same pope who sheltered Jews within the Vatican? I don't see what Pius XII did as any different from Oskar Schindler. Both men saved many lives.

[Dr Strangelove]

Good catch.

So, I believe there is an important difference between acts perpetrated by Christians and acts perpetrated by the Christian Church.

Sure, see my Sig. One million southern French people killed in order to root out an order of Cathars whose numbers never exceeded a few thousand. The abbot in charge rewarded by being made the progenitor of a new class of Roman Catholic clergy - Inquisitors.

[Dr Strangelove]

Hell, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was an out and out Nazi supporting bigot.

Don't forget, he was appointed by the British colonial authorities.

[molly bloom]

If anti-Semitism originated with Christianity, it must have been that Jews had a happy fun time in Israel before Christ.

You mean that same Yeshua who was also a Jew ?

The same pope who sheltered Jews within the Vatican?

The same one who didn't cause a stink when Eastern Europe's most Catholic country was invaded by Nazi Germany.

This one :

At times, he tried to help the Jews and was successful. But these successes only highlight the amount of influence he might have had, if he not chosen to remain silent on so many other occasions. No one knows for sure the motives behind Pius XII's actions, or lack thereof, since the Vatican archives have only been fully opened to select researchers.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html

I recommend to anyone seriously interested in the ways in which official Christian bodies in Germany and elsewhere cooperated with the genocide and anti-Jewish sentiments to read Dawidowicz's 'The War Against The Jews', Wistrich's 'Antisemitism', Poliakov's 'The Aryan Myth' and 'A Social History Of The Third Reich' by Richard Grunberger.


And ignore Sister Bendy's plaintive mewing about Pacelli.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hitler's Pope, FWIW, came out well before documents indicating Pius's sheltering of Jews during the Holocaust. The book itself was countered by not just Catholic historians, but also Jewish ones, and publications like the Economist. The author himself has dialed back some of his accusations.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Were Hitler and the Nazis Buddhists ? Animists ? Muslims ? Was it Taoist thought that shaped their lives ?


No, no, Nanette.

They weren't Christian for sure. They championed a twisted view of Nietzsche, in which they considered themselves the Ubermench of the new world order. Christianity was a herd mentality religion (for Nietzsche as well as the Nazis) - it didn't belong in the Reich unless it was under the boot of the State. If anything, the Nazis reached more for the symbolism of early Germany paganism.

[Bereta_Eder]

Once I met a prominent dutchie. he was happy because he was studying ancient greek in order to read the holy scriptures.
"I am an atheist, he said, but I like to read the bible in order to understand how it has influenced our societies".
catch my drift?

[Dauphin]

Because the acts were perpetrated by French, Italians, Germans, Austrians, Baltic Germans, Dutch people and so on. The common link is a tradition of antisemitism ingrained in Christianity.

Does this common link apply to the muslim areas of North Africa too?

[Dauphin]

The common link I see is countries occupied by Nazis. The christians of America, Britain and the Commonwealth, South Maerica etc didn't make the list of Holocaust bandwagoners.