Supreme Court rules in favor of public legislative prayers

[Berzerker]

You need to reread your bible. He never claimed to be the King of the Jews. The Jews claimed he claimed this when they went to Pilate. They even complained to Pilate when he wrote, "King of the Jews", and they wanted him to put, "he claimed to be King of the Jews". Pilate even said, "what I have written I have written."

So Jesus wasn't the Messiah?

The establishment clause doesn't differ between the two. Both are appropriate.

Of course it differs, the Pledge is a law and the Declaration of Independence is not

And the establishment clause says otherwise. It may be your legal opinion but it's not supported.

The '43 court removed the official punishment for refusing the Pledge, it did not remove the coercion.

Both are taught in schools, both are legitimate topics of an American civics class.

No, one is taught, the other is recited on a daily basis. One is a statement of belief by people long dead, the other is an oath by the living.

The only reason you're opposed to it is because this is a religious dispute for you, nothing more or less. It's got nothing to do with the establishment clause or anything. If it said, allah, you'd be fine with it.

I believe in religious freedom, thats why I'm opposed to the state coercing children into swearing allegiance to it's god. And I'd have the same problem if it was the Christian god, the deist' god, or the Muslim god.

Ok. So you think that 'do not murder' is contra to our natural right to life?

Murder was not on my list

That 'do not steal', is contra to our freedom to own private property?

Or theft

Honor your father and mother is contra our recognition of mothers and fathers and the natural family?

And?

The ten commandments is an affirmation of our natural rights.

The 1st bans religious freedom

It is your job to look at my evidence. If you can't be bothered to read what I write then I see no point in replying further.

You didn't write anything, you posted a link and told me to look for your evidence.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes.

What I'm suggesting is that more good is done for souls to persude them from sin than to persuade Cesar to coerce them from sin. Sin is bad, m'kay?

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Ceasar coerces people from sin - but there is individual sin and collective sin. Sometimes we need to purge the collective sin just as much as our individual sins.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Sure.

Preaching and teaching to cut that stuff out works better than laws, though, when it works.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sure.

Preaching and teaching to cut that stuff out works better than laws, though, when it works.

Depends.

It seems to me that dealing with our collective sin of poverty has been better handled through certain laws (welfare, minimum wage, etc) than through preaching and teaching to give to the poor and needy - that may result in some very important work to some, but leaves wide swaths behind (the main reason why these laws were thought necessary).

[Ben Kenobi]

the main reason why these laws were thought necessary

LBJ was quoted on the whole point to the laws was to get blacks to vote for him by giving them money. Say what you will, the strategy's been spectacularly effective.

[Ben Kenobi]

Berz:

If you can't be bothered to read what I write then I see no point in replying further

[Kidlicious]

Depends.

It seems to me that dealing with our collective sin of poverty has been better handled through certain laws (welfare, minimum wage, etc) than through preaching and teaching to give to the poor and needy - that may result in some very important work to some, but leaves wide swaths behind (the main reason why these laws were thought necessary).

We gonna force people to pay tithes too?

[Berzerker]

Berz: If you can't be bothered to read what I write then I see no point in replying further

I win

[MrFun]

I win

Congratulations. You won against someone of the likes of Benny instead of having him on Ignore.

That's like bragging that you bench lifted fifteen pounds, doing two reps.

[Kidlicious]

"You didn't build that. The govt did." - Obama

[kentonio]

"You didn't build that. The govt did." - Obama

What's your point?

[Lorizael]

"You didn't build that. The govt did." - Obama

Yeah, Obama never said that.

[Kidlicious]

Yeah, Invisible Obama never said that.

Fixed

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

You've got that backwards, Kid.

[Lorizael]

That's simply not the quote, Kid. Here's the quote:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.