Roman Catholic Church lowers its standards

[Imran Siddiqui]

So according to you homosexuality is a sin from which one must timely repent...
I'm sorry to say this is the position of many churches as well as far as I know...

But not all!

[Bereta_Eder]

yeah, I don't want to be dismissive but the orthodox and the catholic church encompass so many millions of people that their ideas are relevent to many people. I dont know the protestant stance on that. Or that of other church?

[Ben Kenobi]

400 years after Rome's murder of Christ.

God is very merciful.

[Bereta_Eder]

well i've been thinking and i've comeup with the following:

so you have the catholic and orthodox church and they both say they follow the holy scriptures to the letter.
but there are strong differences. for example you say only one marriage. orthodox church says up to 3 (with deacresing festivity for each)

you say priests cant marry and must be celibate, orthodoxy says they can marry but not if they want to reach higher hierarchies.

so obviously based on the same texts (i think) there are different results.

better find a different result for gays too because it is completely inhuman to deprive them from their need for being religious people. and good religious people.

that or eventually the holy scriptures will be maybe rewritten....

(I know everyone has excomunicated me by now )

[rah]

Can anyway say "love thy Neighbor".

[Sava]

(I know everyone has excomunicated me by now )

The Church of Sava welcomes you, my son.

[Felch]

you say priests cant marry and must be celibate, orthodoxy says they can marry but not if they want to reach higher hierarchies.

This is not a doctrinal matter in Catholicism, it's just a disciplinary matter. The rationale being that the Church was the wealthiest and most powerful entity in Europe about a thousand years ago, and they had problems with nepotism and petty corruption. Priestly celibacy was a reform tool, used to prevent local parishes from becoming inheritable estates.

[molly bloom]

Which is why Catholics had to be emancipated?

And they were. The point being, that unlike, say, Spain, Portugal, France or Italy, the United Kingdom still had a religious minority.

What happened to dissenters in those officially Roman Catholic countries, Sister Bendy None So Blind ?

I'm not seeing the UK as a haven for religious freedoms.

Feel free to take your blinkers off then. Jews and Huguenots saw it as such.

They had to be told that oppressing Catholics was wrong. In the 19th century!

'They' had to be told by whom ?

It was an act of Parliament, which followed similar measures in Ireland and government support for Catholic educational establishments. Contrasts rather well with the situation for Protestants in Austria-Hungary, for example.


But we've been through all this before..

The 1689 Act Of Toleration gave freedom of worship to all trinitarian Protestants. The only 'restriction' is that church doors were to be kept unlocked during church services. A country in which Methodism, Presbyterianism, the Baptists, Congregationalists, and Quakers existed alongside the Church of England free from harassment is hardly a 'confessional' state. The Methodists even had women preachers.

Compare this with Austria, which did not have a similar act until nearly a hundred years later- all subjects of the empire had to have confession tickets or Beichtzettel, to show attendance at Easter confession, which was obligatory. Also, all subjects were required to adhere to the Roman Catholic church, and special state commissions travelled around the state checking 'Beichzettels'.

That's a confessional state.

Just in case you don't remember :

The 1832 Reform Act was about the overhaul of an outdated electoral/voting system which was out of touch with the new realities of Industrial 19th Century England. In any case, the Test and Corporation Acts were repealed in 1828 (and had been virtually dead letters for some time).

Also you are clearly unaware that Irish subjects were allowed to vote in parliamentary elections in 1793, and the Irish Test Act was repealed 49 years before the English one. State funding of Irish Catholic educational establishments began in 1795.

I do like quoting me, especially when I'm correcting your nonsense.

From this thread*, for the entertainment of Pax, in particular. I'm sure he'll get a good laugh out of some of your posts.

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/2...message-to-Ben *

[molly bloom]

I go to the catechism, and it says that homosexual desires are intrinsically disordered, that homosexual acts they are sinful and contrary to God's design for sex.

Where's the bit in the catechism about priests and lay brothers of the Roman Catholic Church abusing children, then ?


What does it say specifically about that, and about orchestrated cover-ups by the Church hierarchy ?

[molly bloom]

Last I checked, slavery predated Christianity, and Christians were the ones who banned it.

Catholic were they ? Or do you mean the evangelical Protestant Clapham Sect and Wilberforce, perchance ?

[Ben Kenobi]

This is not a doctrinal matter in Catholicism, it's just a disciplinary matter. The rationale being that the Church was the wealthiest and most powerful entity in Europe about a thousand years ago, and they had problems with nepotism and petty corruption. Priestly celibacy was a reform tool, used to prevent local parishes from becoming inheritable estates.

That, and a little passage by St. Paul where he talks about how an unmarried man is free to devote himself to God.

[Ben Kenobi]

better find a different result for gays too because it is completely inhuman to deprive them from their need for being religious people. and good religious people.

that or eventually the holy scriptures will be maybe rewritten....

Sin is sin. That gay people seek to rewrite scripture to accommodate themselves is no different from rewriting all the other sins out of the books. People can leave their sins. That is what Christianity teaches, they can all overcome sin. We are not helping them by telling them that 'your sin is special', and 'you don't need to repent'.

[Bereta_Eder]

Interesting. I didn't know the catholic church even existed 1000 years back.

Well about the gay issue, I'm positive that with the large autonomy of orthodoxy, solutions are found in the context of indivudual spiritual fathers that don't make people feel **** for who they are.
maybe in catholisism too.

[Elok]

The question of whether Catholicism or Orthodoxy "existed" a thousand years ago depends on your perspective; they say we split off from them, we say they split off from us.

[Sava]

They are heretics.