downsizing US military

[C0ckney]

Instead of being a tw@t try enquiring. That's how a useful discussion goes, but then again this is Poly so...

i've been asking you to explain yourself and back up your statement the entire time. you have still failed to do so.

I've been making my point quite well, thanks. Everyone gets it except those who refuse to.

Yup, the Yanks lost Vietnam and more of SE Asia. They (and others) saved S Korea, and likely others by putting up a fight. It was a war. You lose battles, and they learned the lessons they turned to great advantage in Afghanistan vs the Soviets. Who won the struggle for Asia in the end?

south korea isn't in south east asia last time i checked. the korean war was before vietnam. seriously, this is getting ben like. i ask a simple question, you put up a strawman and post some irrelevant facts and unsupported opinions. if you can't explain your views or back them up, then maybe you should think about them again.

[C0ckney]

Cockney's desire for social justice trumps any Lockean sense of property.

It would be more compelling to him to demonstrate that the condition of life is worse under communism than under American 'imperialism'.

it's nice to see some people get it.

[regexcellent]

What Alby was saying is that you don't respect basic human rights because of a misguided and overriding sense of social justice.

[C0ckney]

you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

[notyoueither]

i've been asking you to explain yourself and back up your statement the entire time. you have still failed to do so.

I've backed up my statements. I've given you examples of Communism gone really bad, like the collectivisations, the gulags. and the assorted other reasons Communists chose to murder people.

You don't seem to want to listen. Why is that?

south korea isn't in south east asia last time i checked. the korean war was before vietnam. seriously, this is getting ben like. i ask a simple question, you put up a strawman and post some irrelevant facts and unsupported opinions. if you can't explain your views or back them up, then maybe you should think about them again.

Stop being a fvcking moron! Ben like? You're Ben here, dude.

You never asked a simple question. You've been picking a fight. I'm not playing. If you want an honest discussion, let's have it. But you're going to have stop hiding behind your passive agressive BS and talk.

Here's a hint, moron, I never said SK was in SE Asia. I mentioned the struggle for Asia. Try to keep up, dimm wit. If you want to talk, let me know. If not, fvck off!

[notyoueither]

And btw, who do you direct the deaths in Vietnam on? Whose score card?

Are they all the fault of the US and allies, or are they maybe sort of partly the fault of people who waged an aggressive war to take over territory of another state?

[C0ckney]

(snipping out name calling and proof of your inability to read)

whooops, nothing left...

[notyoueither]

OK, Ben. Bu bye. You can no longer be taken seriously. Too bad.

[C0ckney]

i don't care about the opinions of those who can't even answer a simple question.

[regexcellent]

It's not worth arguing with cockney on world affairs because he has this ridiculous ass-backwards view where good is evil and evil is good. He has a habit of making inappropriate moral equivalencies, for instance between the United States under the George W. Bush administration and the Islamic Republic of Iran. It points to a grasp on reality that is severely flawed.

[onodera]

It's not just being oppressive, it's also the economic system that is downright immoral to its very core by denying people their essential property rights.

Wtf are the essential property rights?

Also, socialism restricts only the property rights to the means of production other than your labour, it doesn't restrict your other property rights.

[Elok]

And btw, who do you direct the deaths in Vietnam on? Whose score card?

Are they all the fault of the US and allies, or are they maybe sort of partly the fault of people who waged an aggressive war to take over territory of another state?

Wait, are you talking about North Vietnam here? Historically, it was all one country, and the two parts are and were culturally all but identical. I have a hard time buying their attempts to unify as an invasion.

[Felch]

Or like, if you're Ukrainian and happen to have some food stored for the winter, socialism restricts your property rights to that as well.

[korn469]

I'm against the downsizing proposal. I don't think the world is a safe or stable place, and for all of our faults, I think that the U.S. military tries to carry out any mission we're given in the most humane way possible. I think sooner rather than later we'll enter another conflict and then we'll pay far more in bonuses and pay raises to recruit the troops we need than by cutting now and then doing a big increase later. Though I do think the U.S. could make cuts that would save money why maintaining combat power.

1) Cut corps from the Army. I'm not sure why they still exist, or what their purpose is except to have staff and command slots for officers. My current unit falls either under FORSCOM, 3rd ESC, or XVIII Airborne Corps depending on what day of the week it is.

2) Personal pet peeve of mine, but the military should drastically cut back on the amount of military musicians throughout the entire DoD.

3) The army has at least 50% too many Humvees as part of the low use program. At one time they may have been vital equipment that would deploy, but since the rise of IEDs, they are permanently home bound. Just starting up thousands of Humvees each week for PMCS throughout the year uses untold amount of dollars just in diesel. If land and ammo are both constraints units must plan around, transport could fit into that as well.

4) Get some kind of control over acquisitions and develop some kind of strategy. I've seen the Army use all kinds of different software just for messaging. I'm sure some of the packages were extremely overpriced. Some of the messaging packages came with proprietary equipment that quickly became junk with a change to a new system. While at the same time I've seem rooms full of the old hand cranked phones and spools and spools of wire for them.

5) Cap base pay at either 7,509.60 (max enlisted pay/E-9 with over 38 years of service) or 9,315.00 (max warrant officer pay/W-5 with over 38 years of service). It's not the E-6's retiring at 20 years who are overwhelming the retirement system. It's the admirals and generals retiring at 34-40 years that's overwhelming it.

6) Kill the F-35. I'd rather have F-22's and A-10's any day to that thing. Get rid of the LCS too.

Here's why the military should stay strong in my opinion. In Afghanistan we worked with NATO allies to build infrastructure. One of the buildings was a school where girls could attend. The Taliban came into the area and executed the school's principal, who was an outspoken supporter of education for everyone including girls, shortly after we opened the school. Meanwhile, we would arrest bomb makers and other insurgents. I mean we could on occasion see unarmed people who were certainly acting as spotters for other launching rocket and mortar attacks, yet we didn't shoot them or even detain them. I'm sure the Soviets were just as restrained during their time in Afghanistan.

The Taliban and the Haqqanni Network were like outlaw motorcycle gangs on steroids during my deployment. They'd come into a town at night on their motorcycles, then threaten, intimidate and kill. That was their mission.

I know we (meaning U.S. forces, Afghan government forces, and our ISAF allies including troops I worked with from the Czech Republic, Canada, Jordan, France and Portugal) either conducted probably just as many or more night operations as the insurgents (especially when you include convoys and air resupply missions) and I'm certain we frightened many of the Afghan people in area. However, that wasn't our mission. It was to try to create stability in the country while the government built up its capacity to govern, and to assist in reconstruction and development. At times we did have to respond with deadly force, but we weren't there simply to kill and brutalize the population.

I'm sure the Syrian commander who successfully carried out the Sarin nerve gas attack who a medal or some other form of recognition from President Assad. If a U.S. commander carried out a similar attack, he'd face either the death penalty or life in prison for participating in a massacre (even if he did get an order from the president).

[PLATO]

Problem: Iran building Nuclear Bomb
Problem: Syria disintegrating
Problem: Terrorist threat rising in Africa
Problem: China threatening Japanese
Problem: North Korea still testing long range missles
Problem: China threatening Phillipine territory
Problem: Russia invading Ukraine

Obama solution: Cut Military

Thanks Obama! You ****ing moron.