downsizing US military

[PLATO]

i just hope he's better at it than nye.

Oh good lord. You really don't understand how force projection creates stability? And you are British? Do you even read your own history?

[Guynemer]

I refer you to History itself. I assume you read?

That isn't how "facts" work, Plato.

Show me actual data.

[pchang]

Because we aren't insane enough to go all nuclear over everything. The rest of the world pretty much called this bluff in Vietnam and has been acting accordingly ever since.

[100% Wolf]

Obviously, it is not obvious. However, given the current lack of force projection and committment it is obvious that the Kremlin feels they can act with impunity. Proper application of force and force projection will never guarantee stability, but the lack of it will guarantee instability.

Could you put this in more concrete terms? Do you want to establish US bases in Ukraine? Give Ukraine military aid? What force projection do you consider proper?

[PLATO]

That isn't how "facts" work, Plato.

Show me actual data.

I am sure you feel that that is a quippy comeback. If you disagree with the lessons of history, then fine. If you want to stand by your implied assertion that force projection does not create stability, then fine. If you want a history lesson, I get $220/hr plus expenses. Let me know when and where and I will send you an initial invoice.

[C0ckney]

Oh good lord. You really don't understand how force projection creates stability? And you are British? Do you even read your own history?

Proper application and force projection is the key to stability and peace.

when i think of afghanistan, iraq and libya, stability and peace are the first two words that come to mind.

or did you have some other 'proper application[s] [of military forces]' in mind?

[Guynemer]

The size of our military and the projection of force is a historical fact for world stabilization. As we draw down, the world becomes more unstable.

If this is a fact, you should be able to provide data; certainly for the assertion of the second sentence.

[100% Wolf]

"Force projection" and "stability" both sound like vague, nebulous concepts. I'm sure you could pluck some examples out of a history book of "force projection" promoting "stability" but what would that prove?

[PLATO]

Could you put this in more concrete terms? Do you want to establish US bases in Ukraine? Give Ukraine military aid? What force projection do you consider proper?

At this point, it is like trying to close the barn door after the horse has left, but I would deploy fighter aircraft to forward NATO bases, get Ukranian permission for U-2 overflights, move the maximum number of ships allowed under traety into the black sea, and reposition the Med fleet to the Eastern Med.

Coupled with Political moves of stating that the U.S. will not initiate any conflict (but will protect our assets). that the west will economically support the new government, and preperation of sanction discussions against the Russians if they invade. Along with this, I would give a full court press on the Chinese to restate their long held view of non-interference to the Russians publically.

Force projection isn't always purely military, but it does have a strong military component.

[PLATO]

or did you have some other 'proper application[s] [of military forces]' in mind?

Others. I see your point though. Look at my last post before this one for a better answer.

[PLATO]

"Force projection" and "stability" both sound like vague, nebulous concepts. I'm sure you could pluck some examples out of a history book of "force projection" promoting "stability" but what would that prove?

That force projection promotes stability?

[100% Wolf]

That force projection promotes stability?

lol good one.

At this point, it is like trying to close the barn door after the horse has left, but I would deploy fighter aircraft to forward NATO bases, get Ukranian permission for U-2 overflights, move the maximum number of ships allowed under traety into the black sea, and reposition the Med fleet to the Eastern Med.

Coupled with Political moves of stating that the U.S. will not initiate any conflict (but will protect our assets). that the west will economically support the new government, and preperation of sanction discussions against the Russians if they invade. Along with this, I would give a full court press on the Chinese to restate their long held view of non-interference to the Russians publically.

Force projection isn't always purely military, but it does have a strong military component.

And pray Putin doesn't call our bluff.

[PLATO]

lol good one.

[PLATO]

And pray Putin doesn't call our bluff.

Indeed. Putin is smart though. If he believes there is a chance to escalate to hot conflict with the U.S. I don't believe that he would proceed. The U.S. has to make a decision. Is Ukraine where you draw a line for the New Russian Empire, or do you cede Ukraine and draw the line further West. If Putin believes we will draw the line in Ukraine, then my bet is Ukraine is where the line will be.

[korn469]

Even if there were incontrovertible proof that having a large military doesn't bring peace or stability and the U.S. drastically reduced it's military spending (saying a 80% reduction over what's already been proposed), I don't think the world would follow America's example. In fact I think rogue nations like North Korea and Syria would take advantage of the situation. Having a credible military threat mean that it must have the capability to reasonably carry out a proposed mission.