Do poly atheists know the Bible?

[Kidlicious]

So what?

If he's omniscient, he would have known how mb would react... or anyone else.

If God knows everything, he knows what choices we'll make. Thus, fate exists and choice does not.

If God is all knowing, free will doesn't exist. It's as simple as that.

1) What does it matter if he knows what mb is going to do?
2) Are you saying that unless we have freewill we shouldn't be judged?

[Kidlicious]

Kidicious is playing the "if x created y than y has no right to complain about what x does" card.

Oh no. You have a right. That's why God is not a bully. But as you know you have a right to do evil.

[Ban Kenobi]

Then Job arose, and rent his robe, and shaved his head, and fell upon the ground, and worshiped. And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return; the Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”
In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.

Clearly if God created us than we're just his playthings that he has every right to dispose with as he pleases.

[Kidlicious]

Clearly if God created us than we're just his playthings that he has every right to dispose with as he pleases.

I play around like everyone else, but when I said that I would accept your source I wasn't playing around. I'm an honorable person.

Now the Bible is clear that we are not just God's play things. But you, mb, and others like to play this little game. That's cool though.

[Ban Kenobi]

Feel free to cite the Bible passage that clearly states humans are not God's playthings...

¹⁴ What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! ¹⁵ For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” ¹⁶ So it depends not upon man’s will or exertion, but upon God’s mercy. ¹⁷ For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” ¹⁸ So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.
¹⁹ You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” ²⁰ But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me thus?” ²¹ Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?

Like clay in his hands... lovely.

[Kidlicious]

Why don't you pull a few lines out of another book and we can play this game with that book. I think you haven't out done mobius though. He insists God wants us to cut our balls off. Good fun.

[Ban Kenobi]

¹⁰ The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” ¹¹ But he said to them, “Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. ¹² For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”

I guess no Christian (with the possible exception of Origen) has had the balls to cut off his balls "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven".

[Uncle Sparky]

This thread is now about wombats-

[Kidlicious]

I guess no Christian (with the possible exception of Origen) has had the balls to cut off his balls "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven".

Some people are too stupid to be christians because they think they have to cut off their balls.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You're myopically focusing on one aspect of the tale to brush off arguments about other aspects of the tail. There are many messages in Job, not just one.

You mean I'm focusing on the main point of the parable? How dare I?!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Clearly if God created us than ... he has every right to dispose with as he pleases.

Well, yes actually.

Though He is clear we are not merely His playthings, but His image-bearers (eikon) into Creation, charged with extending His blessings throughout all of the world.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Some people are too stupid to be christians because they think they have to cut off their balls.

Especially considering:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

During the past century, scholars have often questioned this, surmising that this may have been a rumor circulated by his detractors.[12][13] Henry Chadwick points out that, while the story may be true, it seems unlikely, given that Origen's exposition of Matthew 19:12 "strongly deplored any literal interpretation of the words".[14]

Though some historians still believe it to be true, Origen of ALL people during the 2nd Century would be the last thing from being a literalist.

[Ben Kenobi]

We can (and generally do) deduce from what we observe about murder that it isn't a good thing.

Why? Plenty of people have come to the opposite conclusion that killing people is good because it gets rid of your enemies.

As for how I know murder is wrong, because I do not want to be murdered. I can easily observe what happens when someone has been murdered, and have decided it's not my cup of tea. The vast majority of humanity agrees. So it's on pretty solid ground as far as morality goes.

So what you're saying then is whatever the majority agrees is right or wrong, that makes something right or wrong? What if the majority changes, does this mean that something that is right now could be wrong tomorrow?

Finally, how do you come to the conclusion that the statement, "consensus from individuals is how we determine what is right and what is wrong?" Where does this principle come from?

Do you think murder is wrong?

Yes. As for why, it's because people are made in the image of God. People have intrinsic characteristics that makes them valuable, not subjectivism (I don't want to be killed), or via consensus (the majority says X must be wrong ergo it is)

Disregarding the welfare of women and children is wrong. An entity killing off women and children for sport (wager) is wrong.

So who killed the women and children? God or Satan? God did not kill them, Satan did so.

The whole concept is abominable, and framing a moral tale around it's occurance just makes the whole story of questionable moral value.

So the fact that God permits evil to happen in the world makes the moral tale questionable?

I don't need divine revelation to understand that.

So let's back up a bit. What makes 'disregarding the women and children', wrong? Are you saying that God has an obligation to protect everyone from natural harm? Where does this principle come from?

You obviously have no comprehension of what I said.

You're arguing, "we don't understand scientists therefore we ought to trust them on authority alone." There are serious problems with this argument. We know science is true because we can prove it empirically. The same is not true for morality.

[Ben Kenobi]

Though some historians still believe it to be true, Origen of ALL people during the 1st Century would be the last thing from being a literalist.

Origen was born in the 2nd century and his works date to the 3rd. If you're going to argue 'historians believe x', you'd best get your historical facts correct.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Is there where you are going do your thing where a typo becomes a massive argument point for you?