Trolling the deaf

[-Jrabbit]

There you go again, Aeson, being reasonable, being on topic, and yet quoting Ben in so doing.

(Not that I am without sin.)

[Sava]

I know a number of people (deaf people) who were pretty ****ing outraged by this, considering that real goddamn sign language interpreters aren't hard to find, after all my university employs something like 100 of them (maybe more?)

some of my best friends are deaf

my father's deaf!

my sister married a deaf guy!

[Ben Kenobi]

States can't nullify Supreme Court decisions or federal laws. If they could the federal government would be nothing more than a formality like the UN.

Where does the constitution state that the federal government has the right to prevent states from protecting unborn children? It's not one of the enumerated powers.

[Ben Kenobi]

The debate here (my post, which you quoted, and the post I quoted) is whether or not there is a legal outlet by which it could be done. I'm not interested in your moral tangent. It clearly is possible for voters in the US to change the applicable laws (and/or interpretations) via a democratic process.

Not for unborn children. What democratic process do they have access to?

[Ben Kenobi]

I, frankly am not surprised that Apolyton supports violence when it aligns with their politics. It is good now that it is out in the open.

[Ban Kenobi]

Where does the constitution state that the federal government has the right to prevent states from protecting unborn children? It's not one of the enumerated powers.

Sorry but such laws were struck down in a supreme court decision. That's the way the cookie crumbles I guess.

I, frankly am not surprised that Apolyton supports violence when it aligns with their politics. It is good now that it is out in the open.

The government (and by extension, politics) is violent by definition.

[Aeson]

Not for unborn children. What democratic process do they have access to?

I fully support the right of unborn children to use violent means to overthrow their oppressive government that doesn't give them the right to vote. If fetus-Mandela were to blow up some abortion clinics in such a struggle, then get sent to prison for decades, then was able to forgive abortion doctors and help them see the error of their ways ... he would be a great fetus! You however would call fetus-Mandela a terrorist and piss on his grave

[regexcellent]

some of my best friends are deaf

my father's deaf!

my sister married a deaf guy!

I go to a school for deaf people

like, 10% of the people here are deaf

my upstairs neighbor is deaf.

[kentonio]

It had support, but it was never deep. The poor usually didn't give that much of a ****--and in fact were the most reactionary. Revolutionaries were more often middle class. You are seriously exaggerating.

Please stop believing stupid anti-communist propaganda. It's a pretty ****ty system of government that has already been shown to fail, but denying that poor people are attracted to systems like communism that offer them a better chance in life is pretty retarded. It's no coincidence that communism spread through labour organizations. It didn't require Russia (who were poor as **** most of the time incidentally) to bribe workers in order for them to think that maybe working in a factory for 14 hours a day for subsistence wages and at the risk of losing their jobs and homes at any moment (while the factory owners made vast fortunes) probably wasn't a system that offered them the best deal in life.

[dannubis]

For the love of everything that you hold dear... STOP QUOTING BEN.

[Aeson]

It is good now that it is out in the open.

just because

[molly bloom]

I have read them. .

Yeah, like you said you'd read Hobbes's 'Leviathan' and Locke's 'Second Treatise On Civil Government' and 'Letter Concerning Toleration'. I notice that having supposedly read them, the diametrically opposed Locke and Hobbes made such an impression on you, that you managed to confuse the one with the other- somehow not noticing all the while Hobbes's ardent anti-Catholicism.

By the way, reading Hobbes's 'Leviathan' (not a book which supports natural rights as Locke's does) is not the same as reading a review of 'Leviathan' or brushing past the York Notes in a bookshop.


I note you can't cite the part of the transcript where Mandela was allegedly found guilty of murder- was this a separate trial which only you know about ?

This is false

Really ? At the Rivonia trial he was charged with sabotage, conspiracy and treason. I'm reasonably sure none of those are synonyms for murder, Sister Bendy.

Are you saying you support clinic bombing?

Oh definitely, and twice on Thursdays.

That still does not stop them from non-violent protest.

Do you know, it's funny, I can recall a group of people who took up arms because they demanded 'no taxation without representation'. In South Africa at the time of the Rivonia trial, not only did black South Africans lack representation, but white Namibians were allowed to vote in elections and stand for the South African parliament.

And I find it remarkable that someone who elsewhere expressed his belief in 'natural rights' and 'the right to bear arms' thinks that black South Africans should have just put up without either of those.

Did I miss something about natural rights ? Are some of these rights whiter than others and thus denied to dark-skinned people ?

It just means like other non-violent protesters, they will end up in jail.

Incorrect. In South Africa (as in Argentina, Chile, Guatemala, China, Burma) it means they may end up indefinitely detained, tortured, murdered or disappeared. Just ask Steve Biko. Oh wait, we can't.

I would be saving the lives of young American children were I to do so.

Really ? Could you give us some of their names and birthplaces ?

You said that Mandela was an African freedom fighter,

Technically I didn't.

If violence is the answer

You mean like in 1776 ? Anyway, enough of your droning sanctimonious claptrap about the personhood of zygotes. Here's a well-known guerilla fighter and revolutionary :

If the people of this country had obeyed the precept to eschew violence and maintain order, the liberties of this country would never have been obtained.

The person with the AK 47 ?

Prime Minister William Gladstone.

[molly bloom]

At some point you should ask yourself why communism received the support from the public that it did in quite so many countries.

In South Africa it was because the South African government banned any political party which ignored the colour bar.

[molly bloom]

It's difficult for him to remember something he never knew in the first place.

There must be a lot of gaps....

[molly bloom]

I'm not exactly sure what moral authority he has to speak about anything.

Just think how many Popes that could have been said of. I note the Roman Catholic Church is still resisting attempts to get it to compensate those women used as slave labour in the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland.

Depressing but not surprising: how the Magdalene Laundries got away with it

Now, as the religious orders responsible refuse to contribute towards financial compensation, it's not difficult to see how Irish society allowed these abuses to go on for so long.

Run by the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, High Park Convent was the site of Ireland’s largest Magdalene Laundry. Until well into the twentieth century, girls deemed to be “difficult” – because they were sexually active, or sexually abused, or simply poor – were sent to laundries by their families or the state. Despite having committed no crime, they were not allowed to leave the institutions and were forced to work for no pay, making them literally slaves. Many women spent their entire lives there, remaining long after the actual laundries closed down. They had nowhere else to go.

The nuns sold some of the grounds to a property developer for IR£1.5m, but the sold land included a mass grave containing the remains of 155 women, many of whom were unnamed. The scandal forced Ireland to confront just what had happened in those laundries, and ask why we’d tolerated them for so long. It didn’t stop shameless religious orders continuing to sell land for vast amounts of money – thanks to further land sales, High Park made €61.7m between 1999 and 2009, and today the former grounds are covered in houses and apartments. But while nuns made millions, former Magdalenes began a long campaign for justice.

This year, they finally got results. Following a demand from the UN Committee against Torture (UNCAT) in 2011, a government enquiry into the laundries was established. Released in February this year, the enquiry’s report has been widely criticised by UNCAT among others for being neither independent nor thorough enough. It did, however, officially confirm that not only did the state commit at least 2500 young women to the convents’ “care”, it took advantage of the slave labour, giving the laundries government contracts despite being aware that the institutions were breaking the state’s own labour laws. Taoiseach Enda Kenny offered Magdalene survivors an official state apology, and last month details were announced of a financial compensation scheme.

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/07/depressing-not-surprising-how-magdalene-laundries-got-away-it

The Catholic Church and the sanctity of motherhood:

According to McCarthy and Norris, the experience was hardest on unmarried mothers. Their children were taken from them at birth and placed in orphanages, sometimes within the same compound. Both of them remembered a woman who could see and hear her child. "She couldn't even talk to her; she couldn't smile at her. And that was her daughter, her baby daughter in the orphanage," McCarthy recalled.

Most of the babies were eventually adopted, some by good Catholic families in the United States.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-magdalene-laundry/

Note that in Argentina the children of 'disappeared' people were handed over to supporters of the junta too. How very kind.