Scottish "Independence" manifesto

[kentonio]

Whiskey and tourism apparently.

[C0ckney]

oh dear. it seems that some people have failed to do any research and have instead fallen back on the usual 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' canards.

[Hauldren Collider]

Is this how declaring your independence from Britain works now? What happened to cool shit like "Give me liberty or give me death" or dumping a fuckload of tea into a harbor? Scots are pussies.

[Ben Kenobi]

If the Act of Union is repealed does that mean that the Scottish King is the heir of the Old Pretender? Curious.

[kentonio]

oh dear. it seems that some people have failed to do any research and have instead fallen back on the usual 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' canards.

Personally I have no doubt that Scotland could support itself as an independent nation. Many smaller countries are already out there. However if anyone thinks they can have an independent country with sky high welfare spending, no nukes but NATO membership, EU membership but no Euro or Schengen commitment, while keeping the pound and experiencing no reduction in living standards in any way, then they need mental help.

The SNP 'plan' for an independent Scotland is a ****ing fairytale. They accept none of the likely negatives and brand anyone who raises them as 'Project Fear' and accuses them of trying to run down Scotland. Dishonest ****s.

[Dinner]

oh dear. it seems that some people have failed to do any research and have instead fallen back on the usual 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' canards.

Please.

The reality is they're promising the biggest welfare state in Europe but that they will also cut taxes and everything will balance because of... Magic? Hell, I'm half Scottish so I should be leaning towards Scottish nationalism but this is just retarded.

[Dinner]

Personally I have no doubt that Scotland could support itself as an independent nation. Many smaller countries are already out there. However if anyone thinks they can have an independent country with sky high welfare spending, no nukes but NATO membership, EU membership but no Euro or Schengen commitment, while keeping the pound and experiencing no reduction in living standards in any way, then they need mental help.

The SNP 'plan' for an independent Scotland is a ****ing fairytale. They accept none of the likely negatives and brand anyone who raises them as 'Project Fear' and accuses them of trying to run down Scotland. Dishonest ****s.

Could it support itself? Yes, but with a big drop in living standards as they'd no longer get the generous transfer payments from England each year. Scots should be happy to sit around and keep getting the English to pay for their lifestyle.

[Ban Kenobi]

Is this how declaring your independence from Britain works now? What happened to cool shit like "Give me liberty or give me death" or dumping a fuckload of tea into a harbor? Scots are pussies.

The real pussies are the English who won't do anything to stop them from leaving.

[Dinner]

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

oh dear. it seems that some people have failed to do any research and have instead fallen back on the usual 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' canards.

What does the research suggest?

[C0ckney]

edit: massive x-post. was responding to ken.

would the welfare spending be sky high? scotland already has higher health and education spending than the rest of the UK and manages ok. how much would the new commitments cost? although i've not done the figures, the new commitments don't seem too onerous, certainly nothing that couldn't be covered by a moderate increase in taxes.

i think the EU thing is interesting. it's clear that scotland would have to enter a process to enter the EU and that euro entry would be a condition of that. however the euro thing is a commitment to, at some undefined point, enter the euro. i don't see how the EU could actually force any country to enter the euro if it didn't want to. with the entry itself, it's possible that spain and perhaps other countries could raise objections, but scotland is a rich, developed country whose laws already comply with EU standards and norms. therefore, any delay is likely to be short, and there's no doubt that some transitional arrangements, to keep free movement of goods, people, and capital, could be worked out in the meantime.

no nukes and NATO membership, i don't see why not. there are many NATO members that do have nukes, but even if scotland were to leave NATO, what would be the practical impact? none that i can see besides a few job losses at military bases.

[C0ckney]

What does the research suggest?

that scotland currently spends 9.3% and generates 9.6% of UK revenue, with more existing health and education spending commitments than the rest of the UK.

[C0ckney]

also scotland's problems would likely come in the medium to long term. they could find themselves constrained after the oil starts to run out (or rather becomes uneconomical). however, that's quite a long way off and this leaves plenty of time to diversify the economy. scotland has a lot of potential for green energy for example.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

would the welfare spending be sky high? scotland already has higher health and education spending than the rest of the UK and manages ok. how much would the new commitments cost?

The pension is the big hitter. It's a commitment to inflation-busting pension rises, with vague suggestions about not raising the state pension age as quickly as England/Wales.

Add that to an ageing population, with a hell of a lot of baby-boomers now hitting pensionable age, and life expectancies rising, and you have a rising outstripping both inflation and wages.

The child care incentive is a gamble in increasing childbirth in order to pay those bills in a generation's time.

[Hauldren Collider]

Scotland leaving NATO would be bad but we could probably make do as long as Norway stays in. We'd probably have to throw our weight around to keep the SOSUS line going. Although I'm not actually sure the sosus line still exists...might have been dismantled. In which case, yeah, **** em. We don't need them.