The friends of Ben thread

[Ben Kenobi]

We're all wrong about stuff sometimes

So what am I wrong about?

[Ben Kenobi]

Rah? Someone was arguing with Ben about it the other day

Rah supports contraception, abortion, and gay marriage. So he doesn't count.

Again, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who opposes contraception, Catholic or no. I would agree with Elok that this is a sign of 'hyperconservative Catholicism', except that's what the Church, rightly or wrongly, teaches. I'm pretty sure Felch does too, or at least, I've never heard him say that he's against it.

It's difficult to, say, do anything about criticism that isn't constructed in a fashion that actually could result in changes.

When other people tell you they are Catholic you tell them they aren't, because their beliefs are slightly different to yours.

The Church itself teaches that contraception is wrong. So when someone tells me they are Catholics, I ask if their beliefs are in line with the Catholici church.

If I were, really and truly, 'promoting my own brand', I'd be teaching stuff that was contrary to the Catechism, but this is in it. That's a fact, not a lie.

I should know - because I once believed that it was ok, before I joined the Catholic church.

[kentonio]

You're wrong about history a lot, because you rewrite major events to suit your personal beliefs. You've talked some complete nonsense about the Tudors, which Molly dissected in detail. Just today you tried to claim racists wouldn't join the Republicans because they are the 'anti-slavery party' as if the Southern Strategy had just never happened. Some of those things could be innocent mistakes based on the people you've learned them from, but when you're shown you are wrong, you just pretend it never happened or build strawmen to try and hide your proven mistakes.

[kentonio]

Rah supports contraception, abortion, and gay marriage. So he doesn't count.

Again, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who opposes contraception, Catholic or no. I would agree with Elok that this is a sign of 'hyperconservative Catholicism', except that's what the Church, rightly or wrongly, teaches. I'm pretty sure Felch does too, or at least, I've never heard him say that he's against it.

It's difficult to, say, do anything about criticism that isn't constructed in a fashion that actually could result in changes.



The Church itself teaches that contraception is wrong. So when someone tells me they are Catholics, I ask if their beliefs are in line with the Catholici church.

If I were, really and truly, 'promoting my own brand', I'd be teaching stuff that was contrary to the Catechism, but this is in it. That's a fact, not a lie.

Here we go again. So people are only Catholics if you personally decide they get to be Catholics. Do you even understand how incredibly vain and mindblowingly arrogant that is?

Jesus, what is it about condoms that ****ing matters so much to you? You know how stupidly irrelevant it is in a world where half the planet is hungry and living in poverty, while genocides and wars rage? Seriously, what the **** is wrong with you?

[kentonio]

DP

[DaShi]

Ben's a convert. You can't expect much from him. Some of us have been birthed into Catholicism. Living and breathing it since the day we crawled out the womb and had our first molestation.

[Ben Kenobi]

You're wrong about history a lot

You've talked some complete nonsense about the Tudors

What nonsense? That they executed Catholics and destroyed the heirarchy and seized the monasteries and all Church property for themselves? That's a fact.

I realize that the common opinion doesn't bear this out - but that's not the same as what the facts actually say. I was a member of the COE - it's not unreasonable to conclude that a Catholic English convert from the COE would be especially hostile to the Tudors.

you tried to claim racists wouldn't join the Republicans

Democrat perceived support for minorities is contrary to their support for abortion rights and for Planned Parenthood, which disproportionately targets minorities and black people. Abortion ratios bare this out, and it is part of the reason that black people are only 10 percent of the population, and their share is declining.

because they are the 'anti-slavery party' as if the Southern Strategy had just never happened.

Republicans were the majority support for the Civil Rights bill - something you won't find in the textbooks. I had a good chuckle with Floyd when we went to the LBJ museum and they had an exhibit showing the names sans party memberships. History is an interesting thing, sometimes.

Some of those things could be innocent mistakes based on the people you've learned them from, but when you're shown you are wrong, you just pretend it never happened or build strawmen to try and hide your proven mistakes.

Facts are facts. I have to stand with the historical facts that the Republicans have always opposed slavery. Democrats supported the income tax, the resurrection of slavery and have supported it's expansion.

[Ben Kenobi]

So people are only Catholics if you personally decide they get to be Catholics. Do you even understand how incredibly vain and mindblowingly arrogant that is?

Catholics should follow what the Catholic church teaches. Full stop. If you consider yourself Catholic, why are you not following the teachings of the Catholic church?

Jesus, what is it about condoms that ****ing matters so much to you?

Because it's there in the catechism.

You know how stupidly irrelevant it is

It's not, and that's my point. It's not irrelevant to the Catholic church and certainly not to Humanae Vitae.

Seriously, what the **** is wrong with you?

More have died through abortion than all other wars combined in all of history. I might ask - 'what is wrong with you?'

[Ben Kenobi]

So, any catholic who supports any one of these is not a catholic, according to Ben. Who made you pope?

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Paul VI?

It's all right there. Disagree with it however you like, but it is true that the Catholic church teaches that contraception is wrong.

[DaShi]

Guys, let's get back to what's important: reminding Ben how terrible he is.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben's a convert. You can't expect much from him. Some of us have been birthed into Catholicism. Living and breathing it since the day we crawled out the womb and had our first molestation.

Troll rating: Pope John Paul I. You get points for Catholic (+1), Molestation (+10) and womb (+1).

[kentonio]

What nonsense? That they executed Catholics and destroyed the heirarchy and seized the monasteries and all Church property for themselves? That's a fact.

I realize that the common opinion doesn't bear this out - but that's not the same as what the facts actually say.

The 'common opinion' is that Henry VIII was a bastard who seized property and executed a number of Catholics. Elizabeth was considerably more moderate and managed to not spill huge amounts of blood despite living in incredibly dangerous and unsettled times. It's common opinion because it's also simple fact. It's also simple fact that Bloody Mary was a bloodthirsty zealous who went on a killing spree.

The thing is though, none of this matters. The actions of long dead monarchs don't affect you, they don't affect your beliefs or your church. The church themselves don't even try and defend the violence of those days, because it's indefensible.

Republicans were the majority support for the Civil Rights bill - something you won't find in the textbooks. I had a good chuckle with Floyd when we went to the LBJ museum and they had an exhibit showing the names sans party memberships. History is an interesting thing, sometimes.

For a 'historian' perhaps you should actually pay some damn attention to dates now and again. The Southern Strategy wasn't an instant switch, it was a process that took place in the mid to late 60's. I assume you actually know when the Civil Rights bill passed?

Facts are facts. I have to stand with the historical facts that the Republicans have always opposed slavery.

Stop being a damn idiot. The result of the Southern Strategy was that over 90% of blacks left the Republican party. Gosh, why do you imagine that might be?

[kentonio]

Guys, let's get back to what's important: reminding Ben how terrible he is.

I just want him to have a moment of clarity. I realize this is probably unrealistic.

[DaShi]

It doesn't matter. You're still a convert, Ben. You'll never know true Catholicism. You are welcome to serve us though.

[Ben Kenobi]

Troll rating: Pope Servius IV. You get points for Catholic (+1), Serve (+15) Convert (+10).

Also warrants a response: "Last shall be first and the first last."