The friends of Ben thread

[Ben Kenobi]

Yeah, he doesn't really do fine distinctions too well, either. Dislike for his hyperconservative conception of Catholicism

Opposition to conception and abortion isn't 'hyperconservative' Catholicism. It's what the Church actually teaches. See. This is the problem. Folks who aren't Catholic who think they understand the Catholic church when they really don't.

all Muslims on earth, in spite of the frequently-violent conflicts between them, are necessarily identical (and evil).

Was it Catholics who committed genocide against the Armenians? Or was it Muslims? Yes, many muslims do commit genocide and are commited to it. Convert or die is right there in the Koran.

Say what you like about MrFun, he's at least aware that not all Democrats think like he does, and that some GOP members are not part of the Tea Party.

Yeah, which is why I supported Mitt Romney in the 2012 election. Oh wait, no I didn't. I specifically said that Romney was a disaster.

[DaShi]

Ben is completely delusional. If he wasn't himself, he'd hate himself as much as we do.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, that's not what he's asserting. He's asserting that you're a liar and you twist things in bad faith.

Right, because the only person who lies here is me.

Just like everyone knows what Elok means

It's pretty much all code which is Elok's specialty. Boils down to this - stating things Elok personally disagrees with = lie. Stating things Elok personally agrees with = truth. Nothing more nor less.

you've tried to twist what he's said to try to make it sound like something he patently dos not mean

Elok confirmed that the opposition is 100 percent ideological. Note his definition of 'hyperconservative Catholicism'. That's an ideological dispute, exactly what I stated was going on.

you don't know what you're talking about

What don't I know about? The fact that the Catholic church teaches that abortion and contraception are wrong? Yes, it does. The fact that the Catholic church teaches that homosexual desires are disordered and that sodomy is a sin? These are all actual teachings of Catholicism.

Not 'hyperconservative Catholicism', whatever that term means.

you won't admit it and you lie through your teeth all the time.

The disagreement is pretty much 100 percent ideological, as evinced by Elok's citations of two beliefs which he believes are outmoded and, dare I say, medieval. The problem is that there's a difference between disagreement and wrongness.

Here you are now telling the very people who hate you that they hate you for a different reason than the reason why they actually hate you!!!

If you want to level up your 'hating Kenobi' skill I can help you.

[Ben Kenobi]

If he wasn't himself, he'd hate himself as much as we do.

Few things give greater comfort.

[DaShi]

I don't pity the bugs I step on. Although, I do think more of them than I do Ben.

[Ben Kenobi]

WTF are you even on about

Perhaps the flaw isn't in me but in yourself. If you lack understanding you should first seek to understand. If you lack understanding you cannot come to reliable conclusions.

[Ben Kenobi]

Although, I do think more of them than I do Ben

I pretty much live rent free in your head, Da Shi. You should clean more often.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, I understand completely.

I've changed my opinion on this thread. This is awesome thread.

[DaShi]

I pretty much live rent free in your head, Da Shi. You should clean more often.

Too dumb to come up with your own comebacks. You are hilariously stupid.

[Ben Kenobi]

Too dumb to come up with your own comebacks.

Nobody wastes a-material on b-listers.

[Elok]

From Wiki's article on "bad faith":

Bad faith (Latin: mala fides) is double mindedness or double heartedness in duplicity, fraud, or deception.[1] It may involve intentional deceit of others, or self-deception.

The expression “bad faith” is associated with “double heartedness”,[1] which is also translated as “double mindedness”.[2][3][4] A bad faith belief may be formed through self-deception, being double minded, or "of two minds", which is associated with faith, belief, attitude, and loyalty. In the 1913 Webster’s Dictionary, bad faith was equated with being double hearted, "of two hearts", or “a sustained form of deception which consists in entertaining or pretending to entertain one set of feelings, and acting as if influenced by another”.[1] The concept is similar to perfidy, or being "without faith", in which deception is achieved when one side in a conflict promises to act in good faith (e.g. by raising a flag of surrender) with the intention of breaking that promise once the enemy has exposed himself. After Jean-Paul Sartre’s analysis of the concepts of self deception and bad faith, bad faith has been examined in specialized fields as it pertains to self deception as two semi-independently acting minds within one mind, with one deceiving the other.

Some examples of bad faith include: a company representative who negotiates with union workers while having no intent of compromising;[5] a prosecutor who argues a legal position that he knows to be false;[6] an insurer who uses language and reasoning which are deliberately misleading in order to deny a claim.[6]

Note that sincere and earnest belief do not enter the picture at any point.

[DaShi]

You don't have any good material.

You're a big failure Ben.

[Ben Kenobi]

Elok, can you define what you consider to be 'hyperconservative Catholicism' for me?

[Ben Kenobi]

You're a big failure Ben.

Wisdom of the ages. You really should stop shopping at Muse R Us. Their quality leaves much to be desired.

[Elok]

More specifically, BK's form of bad faith entails a basic lack of reverence for truth itself. To some extent, we are all guilty of trying to advance our own "side" of an argument, without caring whether it is true or false, but Ben takes it to a new level. The beliefs and ideas of others are subjected to a scrutiny which he simply refuses to apply/have applied to his own. When challenged on this, he will throw out a bizarre claim as a distraction, or a distortion of his opponent's position, or simply change the subject. When this fails, he will abruptly vanish from the thread, only to bring up the exact same arguments later, long after they have been defeated.