Republicans have once again demonstrated that they are the party...

[PLATO]

You can blame that **** Grover Norquist for most of this. When you force one of the parties to adopt a position of 'no tax increases ever', then you don't really have anything to negotiate with, especially when you equally refuse to move on defense spending and oil/farm subsidies. There are certainly people on the left who want to never cut any entitlements, but there are plenty of moderates who are ok with it as long as the other side are giving something back in return.

It's not a negotiation when the sacrifice is one sided, which is why this whole drama started in the first place. The GOP just need to tell Norquist to go **** himself (which increasing numbers actually are now, thank god), and accept that the cost of entitlement cuts is going to be defense cuts and some tax rises. Then everyone can go back to quibbling over the small details like normal.

There is much truth in this. If you will remember, I posted recently on the need for tax increases in some segments.

However, there is another side here as well (isn't there always?). Obama refuses to discuss any changes to Obamacare. In all fairness, he has recently made some statements that everything could be on the table. We'll see...but your point on Norquist is spot on.

[PLATO]

I understand now that you've been trolling (thanks Imran).

Damn you Imran!

[PLATO]

Actually, didn't the Democrats try to negotiate with Republicans over the years, multiple times and no one got anywhere?

Not really. The only movement that I can remember is when there was a "manufactured crisis"

[PLATO]

Let's not pretend that these are the real drivers of the debt. There's certainly room to cut in the defense budget but the real money is in entitlements and their growth.

The problem with defense is that we have taken ownership of far to many things in the world. In our paranoia to not let anyone else lead, we have cost ourselves dearly. The last time I looked, we had troops based in around 100 countries in the world. Surely we can use some of the myriad regional organizations we belong to and get them to step up in more meaningful ways for their own defense.

[Boris Godunov]

[kentonio]

It is approximately 19% of the Federal budget.

Ok, so you're only wasting about 15% of the federal budget.

[DaShi]

Interesting, the Party of No has become the Party of Negotiation, not by negotiating but by holding ransom demands.

[Guynemer]

Stop what?

STOP. SAYING. TEA BAGGER.

It does not help your argument. At all.

[MRT144]

TEA STEEPER!

[Guynemer]

You're not my friend, buddy!

[rah]

OK Sherman, let's go back using the way back machine.

After calling for an end to deficit spending that resulted in an annual deficit of $250 billion he then voted to shut down the government rather than automatically extending the debt ceiling. His explanation was "Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren."

The year 2006 and the person was our current President. (where the smallest deficit that he has overseen is over $600 million)

I'm not trying to make an editorial over the use of such a tactic, but just want to remind some of those here that demonize the REPUGS for using such a possibly damaging tactic. Where would they possibly have learned such a tactic from?

[MRT144]

I think the presidency changes your outlook and the usefulness of spending money to achieve things vs. debt load on the backend.

[rah]

Never said it didn't. I was discussing the perception of some posters here about the evilness of the tactic.

[Sava]

OK Sherman, let's go back using the way back machine.

After calling for an end to deficit spending that resulted in an annual deficit of $250 billion he then voted to shut down the government rather than automatically extending the debt ceiling. His explanation was "Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren."

The year 2006 and the person was our current President. (where the smallest deficit that he has overseen is over $600 million)

I'm not trying to make an editorial over the use of such a tactic, but just want to remind some of those here that demonize the REPUGS for using such a possibly damaging tactic. Where would they possibly have learned such a tactic from?

Who are you talking about rah?

SO MANY PRONOUNS

[rah]

Try reading it slower using fewer drugs. Hmm, or should I just post using fewer drugs. Decisions Decisions.