Republicans have once again demonstrated that they are the party...

[The Mad Monk]

one of his greatest achievements as president

This is so sad.

[Wezil]

We should have had a war to remember him.

[Guynemer]

The Tea Bagger

STOP IT

[Wezil]

I had to deal with a ta bag this morning. It was wet and soggy and fell on the floor.

Damn tea bags!

[PLATO]

One of the earliest, first outrageous demands was that President Obama gut/defund one of his greatest achievements as president, as well as symbolically rejecting the election results of 2008 and 2012 and rejecting the American majority's votes.

"Oh gosh, you know I think the president will gladly consider doing this."


And the ACA is being delayed anyway for one year? Source?

I guess you don't really understand "starting points" in negotiation very well do you? Of course, the President was not willing to open the door to securing America's future. He only wanted a political "win" and was willing to devastate the country to get one. Obviously, since they did vote to avoid default, the Republicans were not willing to devastate the country to get what they wanted. This is the real facts. The Republicans offered alternative after alternative to get some movement on solving our problems...each one being shot down without negotiation. In the end, they voted for the country getting nothing. If they had not let the childish President get his way, then Obama and the Democrats would have let the country default before they would have lifted a finger to solve our problems. This is why the Republicans were the grown ups here. It is really simple to see if you take off the Obama Rose colored glasses and quit drinking the sticky dark brown ale of democratic infalliability.

[kentonio]

No dude. Just no. It was an artificially manufactured crisis. The only reason there was any 'negotiation' was because the Republicans demanded a negotiation over something that had already passed into law, and threatened dire consequences if their demands were not met. Obama had no need to negotiate over something that had already become law, and fortunately he realized that the pussytwats in the GOP would cave once they realized the public hated what they were doing. This all came to pass.

[Sava]

PLATO pretends like he's reasonable.

[DinoDoc]

FTFY

Edit:

This would also have been appropriate, Dr. Angry.

[PLATO]

No dude. Just no. It was an artificially manufactured crisis. The only reason there was any 'negotiation' was because the Republicans demanded a negotiation over something that had already passed into law, and threatened dire consequences if their demands were not met. Obama had no need to negotiate over something that had already become law, and fortunately he realized that the pussytwats in the GOP would cave once they realized the public hated what they were doing. This all came to pass.

I do agree that the "crisis" was manufactured. I do not agree that there are no problems to solve. The democrats have continually "kicked the can down the road" and have for several years now refused to have substantive talks on how to solve our problems. Each year Social security comes one year closer to insolvency...each year unsustainable levels of spending keep right on going...each year the debt becomes a heavier burden to the nation. How do you try and get someone who will not do anything to solve problems to negotiate? The Republicans had no other choice than to manufacture a "crisis" to try and force something to happen. Even then, facing a crisis, the democrats would rather destroy the country than make the hard choices on how to secure the future.

I have a hard time understanding why everyone one says "But it was a manufactured crisis!" This seems to be the democratic talking point and, as usual you have bought into it, and my response to that is "Yeah it was. Work the problem and they won't be necessary."

Even given the "manufactured" nature of this crisis, it was clear that the Republicans had no desire to go over the cliff. It is equally clear that the democrats would have done so.

[PLATO]

PLATO pretends like he's reasonable.

I know you have trouble really understanding the issues at stake her. Its okay. Most people don't either. Don't you have a game to play?

[kentonio]

I do agree that the "crisis" was manufactured. I do not agree that there are no problems to solve. The democrats have continually "kicked the can down the road" and have for several years now refused to have substantive talks on how to solve our problems.

So what? So any party can now demand that the issues they care about get resolved and if they don't get their way they'll shutdown the country? That's the politics you want?

How do you try and get someone who will not do anything to solve problems to negotiate? The Republicans had no other choice than to manufacture a "crisis" to try and force something to happen.

You clearly missed the various deals over the last few years that have reduced spending substantially right? It's the same crap every time, the GOP scream 'slash entitlements!' the Dems shout 'Raise taxes or cut the military then!' and then the GOP grandstand and threaten to default or shutdown to try and get a better deal. The difference this time is that instead of talking about budgets, they aimed at an ideological target and tried the same strategy with no chance of winning. They then doubled down their stupid by actually shutting down the government and hurting a ****ton of people (and the US economy) in the process.

Even then, facing a crisis, the democrats would rather destroy the country than make the hard choices on how to secure the future.

Yes ok, it was all the Democrats fault. Feel free to go back to the GOP echo chamber now, and receive your daily indoctrination about how the President is a secret Muslim sleeper agent who is committed to destroying America. You're clearly working on that level right now.

I have a hard time understanding why everyone one says "But it was a manufactured crisis!" This seems to be the democratic talking point and, as usual you have bought into it, and my response to that is "Yeah it was. Work the problem and they won't be necessary."

You and your party are not a majority, they don't currently get to force any issue they please. That's not how democracy works.

Even given the "manufactured" nature of this crisis, it was clear that the Republicans had no desire to go over the cliff. It is equally clear that the democrats would have done so.

I certainly hope so. If they had backed down they'd have show that blackmail is a working strategy, and it would have been done every year by whichever party was in the minority. Your countries credit rating would end up further downgraded, you'd end up losing your reserve currency status and you could all sit and enjoy being poorer, less significant and still wildly in debt. Wouldn't that be fun.

[Sava]

I know you have trouble really understanding the issues at stake her. Its okay. Most people don't either. Don't you have a game to play?

Not really. I'm bored as fuck. I was thinking about the Stanley Parable. But you can't really murder pedestrians in that game.

[DinoDoc]

So what? So any party can now demand that the issues they care about get resolved and if they don't get their way they'll shutdown the country? That's the politics you want?

This was from before the GOP screwed things up on the CR of course:

Most Americans reject ‘clean’ debt limit increase: poll

Here’s an unwelcome number for President Barack Obama and Democrats who are insisting Congress raise the U.S. debt ceiling without strings attached: 61%.

That’s the percentage of Americans who agreed in a Bloomberg poll that it’s “right to require spending cuts when the debt ceiling is raised even if it risks default.”

...

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capitolreport/2013/09/26/most-americans-reject-clean-debt-limit-increase-poll/

[Sava]

Oh look, DD pretends to care about polls when he sees one he likes!

[PLATO]

So what? So any party can now demand that the issues they care about get resolved and if they don't get their way they'll shutdown the country? That's the politics you want?

Constitutionally, the House is responsible for spending. The Republicans are the majority in the House. The majority party not only has the right to push its agenda, it has the responsibility. Not to mention that both parties realize that something needs to be done, but only one is willing to address it because it is politically unpopular to spend less.

You clearly missed the various deals over the last few years that have reduced spending substantially right? It's the same crap every time, the GOP scream 'slash entitlements!' the Dems shout 'Raise taxes or cut the military then!' and then the GOP grandstand and threaten to default or shutdown to try and get a better deal. The difference this time is that instead of talking about budgets, they aimed at an ideological target and tried the same strategy with no chance of winning. They then doubled down their stupid by actually shutting down the government and hurting a ****ton of people (and the US economy) in the process.

You clearly missed the fact that all these cuts have only come when there was a "manufactured" crisis. Yes, the Republicans tried to open negotiations with their best wish list. So what? Do you not understand negotiations either?

Yes ok, it was all the Democrats fault. Feel free to go back to the GOP echo chamber now, and receive your daily indoctrination about how the President is a secret Muslim sleeper agent who is committed to destroying America. You're clearly working on that level right now.

What? I can only assume that you are saying this because you have no real argument other than politically motivated democratic talking points? Where have I ever said any of that? Come on, my friend. We can disagree, but this? Really?

You and your party are not a majority, they don't currently get to force any issue they please. That's not how democracy works.

The Republicans ARE the majority in the body of government responsible for setting spending. They DO get to force the issue. They DO NOT get to mandate things because it requires consent of the Senate and Executive. They are very correct in pushing this agenda...just as the democrats are very correct in responding to it. The system was designed to foster negotiation in a divided government. What is new here is that the Senate and Executive would NOT negotiate. Look at the history of these type crisis. This administration is the FIRST to NOT negotiate. They ran from their responsibility because they thought they could get political gain...which they did. That, however, brought us no closer to solutions...sadly.

I certainly hope so. If they had backed down they'd have show that blackmail is a working strategy, and it would have been done every year by whichever party was in the minority. Your countries credit rating would end up further downgraded, you'd end up losing your reserve currency status and you could all sit and enjoy being poorer, less significant and still wildly in debt. Wouldn't that be fun.

It is disturbing that anyone would support a default to set a political precedent. It is disturbing that you think that the Democrats allowing a default simply because they refuse to talk to the majority party in the U.S. House of Representatives is something that would have been acceptable. This type of thinking is part of the problem...not the solution.