Pope sends direct message to Ben

[Dinner]

Ben really should kill himself. It's the only just thing.

[Elok]

History is a joke subject anyway. All you do is write about stuff that happened.

On the contrary, BK is a good example of why history is important. A warped understanding of the past leads to a warped understanding of the present. Or, conversely, people with a warped idea of the present will try to bend the past to fit it.

[Ben Kenobi]

On the contrary, BK is a good example of why history is important. A warped understanding of the past leads to a warped understanding of the present. Or, conversely, people with a warped idea of the present will try to bend the past to fit it.

Case in point - the denial that Islam was responsible for the Armenian genocide.

[Ben Kenobi]

God, that speech is crap.

What exactly is 'enlightened' about the Committee of Public Safety?

If, we are to believe that the Catholic church has got it all wrong and that disposing the ties of the Catholic church to society - why did we not usher in an era of peace? Of joy?

Why did we not see in the Soviet Union - which removed religion altogether - that we did not see the flourishing of society? The Ubermensch once stripped of all the burdens of superstition, yet he did not thrive beyond all men?

We are told that one sets about the discovery of 'moral truths and principles', and yet we are told that it doesn't really matter in the end - all ways are equally good! And yet - some are not.

Do you really think, Oerdin, that I would find such an argument compelling?

[Ben Kenobi]

You want a rebuttal, Dinner? I watched your videos. Now - since you are 'intellectually honest' - watch mine.

[molly bloom]

A much written about and ballyhooed time. .

Overlooking the point that what you said was demonstrably incorrect- as shown by me and Cockney.

Much less is written about the previous 10 centuries when England was considered to be a Catholic bulwark.

I'm inclined to say with much, or perhaps the majority of what you write, including 'of' 'and' and 'but', what utter bullsh!t.

I own biographies of Henry V, Edward IV, Richard III,Edward III, the Wars Of The Roses, books on the Paston Letters, the Lisle Letters, the mediaeval English church, mediaeval English church architecture, mediaeval English literature, the Plantagenets, Magna Carta, et cetera, et cetera...

And I'm not a 'professional' historian or 'professional' history teacher.

But then what would you know about this time? It wasn't covered in grammar school.

I'm quite happy with you displaying your absolute ignorance of what I was taught and when I was taught it in grammar school. And for overlooking the fact, that for me, education doesn't end when you leave school- or in my case, university.

And yet, I have a history degree from an accredited university and you do not.

Oh wow. Is that why you say ridiculous and manifestly historically inaccurate things such as 'Mary Stuart was innocent', 'the Dutch conquered the English', 'England was a Dutch fief' and 'Elizabeth I executed rulers' ?

(Falls about laughing....)

[molly bloom]

Case in point - the denial that Islam was responsible for the Armenian genocide.

Or alternatively, nationalism. After all, the Tsarist Russian government encouraged Armenians in the Ottoman Empire to fight against the Ottoman Turks.

Still, I suppose switching to the Armenian Genocide gives you yet another area of history in which your splendidly dense approach to logic, facts and fact checking can be demonstrated in all its baroque finery.

[molly bloom]

If we apply that logic to the 2k in the Inquisition, which ran for 350 years, that amounts to... 5.7 a year.

I see you're piss poor at Roman Catholic history too. No shock there.

There were three separate 'main' inquisitions- the mediaeval Inquisition which operated primarily against the Catharist or Albigensian heresy and the Vaudois or Waldenses, the Inquisition founded in Rome, and of course the entirely unexpected Spanish Inquisition.

The mediaeval one dates from the 13th Century, the Roman one from the 16th Century, the Spanish one from the 15th Century. The Spanish one spread its unpleasant influences from India to the Americas to the Spanish Netherlands, the Kingdom of Sicily and points in between.

It eventually ended in the first part of the 19th Century.

Now looking at the death tolls of Dutch/Flemish heretics, Cathars, Huguenots, Anabaptists, anti-Trinitarians, Amerindians, Hindus, Jews, marranos, conversos, moriscos, et cetera, et cetera, and using your impeccable grasp of statistics and guesswork, I've come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church annihilated more people than have ever lived on earth.

Not bad for a supposedly 'Christian' body of people.

[Ben Kenobi]

Overlooking the point that what you said was demonstrably incorrect- as shown by me and Cockney.

What was demonstrably incorrect? That Henry VIII was a faithful Catholic for most of his life? More is written on the last 15 years than on the previous 35. Again - historical bias is just that, historical bias, and it's unsurprising that a nation that hates Catholicism would seek to marginalize it.

I'm inclined to say with much, or perhaps the majority of what you write, including 'of' 'and' and 'but', what utter bullsh!t.

Again, it's not bull****. England was a Catholic bulwark for 10 centuries prior to Henry VIII. Historical fact.

I own biographies of Henry V, Edward IV, Richard III,Edward III, the Wars Of The Roses, books on the Paston Letters, the Lisle Letters, the mediaeval English church, mediaeval English church architecture, mediaeval English literature, the Plantagenets, Magna Carta, et cetera, et cetera...

And again - the literature of the period pales in comparison what is written about in the period from the last 15 years of Henry VIII's life to, say, Elizabeth's death.

And I'm not a 'professional' historian or 'professional' history teacher.

And your point is what? That there are some books written? Sure. Ask the average bloke who Edward III is and who Henry VIII is. Who is he more likely to recognize?

I'm quite happy with you displaying your absolute ignorance of what I was taught and when I was taught it in grammar school. And for overlooking the fact, that for me, education doesn't end when you leave school- or in my case, university.

Why would I be ignorant as to what you are taught in History, when I've been calling you out for the entire thread?

Oh wow. Is that why you say ridiculous and manifestly historically inaccurate things such as 'Mary Stuart was innocent'

Mary Queen of Scots was innocent.

, 'the Dutch conquered the English'

They did, as William III, the King of the Dutch was sole king over England, as Canute himself had been long before.

, 'England was a Dutch fief'

And ruled solely by the King of the Dutch.

and 'Elizabeth I executed rulers' ?

She executed her own heir apparent and the Queen of Scots.

So far you're batting 0/4 here, Molly.

[Ben Kenobi]

Or alternatively, nationalism. After all, the Tsarist Russian government encouraged Armenians in the Ottoman Empire to fight against the Ottoman Turks.

It is odd that those who condemn historical revisionism fail to blame Islam for the Armenian genocide, an event that happened not all that long ago.

But that's because it would mean admitting that Islam believes that genocide is perfectly acceptable.

Still, I suppose switching to the Armenian Genocide gives you yet another area of history in which your splendidly dense approach to logic, facts and fact checking can be demonstrated in all its baroque finery.

Soon we'll see you denying the holocaust.

[Ben Kenobi]

Now looking at the death tolls of Dutch/Flemish heretics, Cathars, Huguenots, Anabaptists, anti-Trinitarians, Amerindians, Hindus, Jews, marranos, conversos, moriscos, et cetera, et cetera, and using your impeccable grasp of statistics and guesswork, I've come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church annihilated more people than have ever lived on earth.

Does it match the tally of 1 billion abortions? Or even Stalin's 60 million? Or Hitler's 20 million? How about Mao? How about Pol Pot? And that's just THIS century?

[kentonio]

What university was tricked into giving you a history degree again? I assume you endlessly whined about how hard your poor life is until they gave you a degree out of pity. It certainly wasn't because of any ****ing history knowledge you embarrasing little man.

[C0ckney]

ben, all your ridiculous assertions have already been destroyed in this thread, and here you are again repeating them.

you are the worst catholic apologist ever. you make all catholics look like a bunch of intellectually dishonest know nothings.

[PLATO]

Yes, we're all amazed. The bar must have been set pretty low.

Not really that amazing...

http://www.cooldegrees.com/

Ben, you should invest in your doctorate as well...that would give you even more self assumed forum cred!

[giblets]

What university was tricked into giving you a history degree again? I assume you endlessly whined about how hard your poor life is until they gave you a degree out of pity. It certainly wasn't because of any ****ing history knowledge you embarrasing little man.

History is a joke subject that anyone could get a degree in.