Pope sends direct message to Ben

[DaShi]

Why aren't you on the death penalty, Ben?

[Ben Kenobi]

The list of things that were non-negotiable for me to convert...

Mary

1, sinless, and has always been sinless.
2, preserved from sin at her immaculate conception
3, that she did not die and was taken up to heaven at her assumption.
4, that she is the theotokos, or God bearer.
5, that Christ was born of her and has a true human nature and a true divine nature

sacramentalism

4, there exist 7 sacraments: marriage, baptism, ordination, confession, extreme unction, confirmation, and first communion each of which are indelible signs of inward Grace, given to us by Jesus Christ, and must not be deprived from his believers except for cases of unconfessed mortal sin.
5, that sacraments are efficacious despite the character of the priest.

Baptism

4, That there is just one baptism for the forgiveness of sins
5, that we are not to rebaptise adults upon their accession to the age of reason
6, that infant baptism as a sacrament is just as valid as baptism of believers
7, that baptism is equally valid when sprinkled as when immersed.

Ordination

7, that ordination occurs from the bishop to the priest, and that only those ordained have the authority to conduct the mass and perform any of the sacraments save baptism.
8, those without the sacrament of ordination do not possess this authority and cannot and should not conduct themselves in this fashion.
9, that ordination has been the teaching of the Church and is prefigured in Christ's baptism in the Jordan.
10, that ordination, thus prefigured must only occur to men.
11, that ordination, as a sacrament remains for life and cannot be removed.

Mass

12, that the sacrifice of the mass, must have the presentation and provision of the eucharist in order to be valid
13, that the body and blood of Christ is his true body and blood presented for us.
14, that Christ is the substitutionary sacrifice for our sins at the mass, and that this is repeated everytime one is offered.
15, that Christ is bodily present in both the wine and the bread
16, that the bread, once consecrated is to be kept in the tabernacle.
17. that the priest and the priest alone can consecrate the bread in the tabernacle.
18. that the bread and wine become the body and blood of christ at the presentation of the gifts during mass
19. that this process is referred to as transubstantiation - the understanding that while the accidents do not change, the substance does change

Bishops, apostolic succession:

10, that the bishops themselves are elected by the authority of the pope
11, that there is an unbroken chain of bishops dating back to the time of Christ and the Apostles
12, that the current bishops of the Catholic church have the authority granted by Christ to his Apostles to spread the Gospels to all nations.
13, that the magisterium of the Catholic church consists of the entirety of the college of bishops
14, that the magisterium of the Catholic church as a whole has the authority to teach and interpret scripture.

Papacy

13, that the pope is the vicar and the representative of Christ on earth
14, that the pope is the latest in an unbroken line from St. Peter as Bishop of Rome.
15, that the Bishop of Rome, as the apostolate of St. Peter has primacy over all the other bishoprics, and the authority to settle disputes.
16, that the pope is an electoral monarchy, elected from the college of Cardinals.
17, that cardinals are selected from the pool of bishops and elevated by the Pope.
16, that the pope, when speaking on matters of faith and morals speaks 'ex cathedra' and is infalliable.
17, that the recognition of all infalliable statements by the popes and understood by the magisterium as such must be accepted in order to be Catholic.

Confession

18, confession to a priest is valid, and priests have the power granted by Christ to absolve sins in his name.
19, there is a difference between venial sins and mortal sins, which involve both the sin and it's nature, and how the will is committed to either.

Marriage

20, that marriage between a catholic and non Catholic must receive dispensation by the Catholic church and that children are to be brought up in the Catholic faith.
21, that marriage is the union of a man and a woman and that this union cannot be deprived by either party except for a time,
22, contraception is not permitted.

Confirmation

20, confirmation as a sacrament occurs to any believer who expresses a sincere free willed desire to enter the Church and is willing to understand and undertake the Catholic faith in it's entirety.
21, confirmation can only be performed by the priest or a bishop.

Extreme unction.

22, The priest, may, upon the immenent and expected death of a Catholic person, may, at the request of that person, perform the sacrament on they dying.
23, the sacrament includes the prayer for the dying and anointing with oil.

The Bible

24, that the Bible was first compiled by the Catholic church in 380 by St. Jerome in the format adopted by the Latin Vulgate.
25, deviations from this bible that are missing books are considered mutilations of scripture and unreliable.
26, that the content of the biblical books are determined by the Catholic magisterium, and were set for all time by St. Athanasius in the early 4th century.
27, that the magisterium of the Catholic church retains the same teaching authority wrt scripture and scriptural disputes.
28, that scripture, while a source of reliable information of God, is to be balance with tradition. Scripture AND Tradition, not sola scriptura.

Grace

29, We are justified by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
30, that justification is unmerited - we have not earned justification through works, and it is only through Christ's death on a cross that we have obtained salvation.
31, it is possible through loss of faith and unconfessed mortal sin to lose one's salvation.

I think that covers all of it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why aren't you on the death penalty, Ben?

I do not support the death penalty. Neither Mennonites nor Catholics do.

[Ben Kenobi]

So when are you backing single payer health care

Single payer health care that includes coverage for abortion is a non-negotiable for Catholics. Catholics are required to be opposed to any such system and we are instructed to resist the implementation of said system in whichever way we can.

and standing on the steps of the Texas State Capitol to get the death penalty overturned?

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/number-executions-state-and-region-1976

Total executions in the state of Texas since 1976, 503.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/births_deaths_marriages_divorces/family_planning_abortions.html

Total abortions performed in the state of Texas in just 2008: 84,610, according to the census.

Abortions per day are around 230.

Better question - if you believed that there were 230 executions occuring everyday in just the state of Texas, which would you believe was the biggest priority?

[Felch]

For the record, the Church doesn't prohibit the death penalty, nor has it ever. The Church requires that the circumstances be appropriate however. Only cases where no other means are effective would warrant its use. If a convict can be controlled by non-lethal means, then the death penalty is unjust.

[giblets]

Why aren't you on the death penalty, Ben?

None of his murder victims have been traced back to him yet.

[DaShi]

The list of things that were non-negotiable for me to convert...

Mary

1, sinless, and has always been sinless.
2, preserved from sin at her immaculate conception
3, that she did not die and was taken up to heaven at her assumption.
4, that she is the theotokos, or God bearer.
5, that Christ was born of her and has a true human nature and a true divine nature

sacramentalism

4, there exist 7 sacraments: marriage, baptism, ordination, confession, extreme unction, confirmation, and first communion each of which are indelible signs of inward Grace, given to us by Jesus Christ, and must not be deprived from his believers except for cases of unconfessed mortal sin.
5, that sacraments are efficacious despite the character of the priest.

Baptism

4, That there is just one baptism for the forgiveness of sins
5, that we are not to rebaptise adults upon their accession to the age of reason
6, that infant baptism as a sacrament is just as valid as baptism of believers
7, that baptism is equally valid when sprinkled as when immersed.

Ordination

7, that ordination occurs from the bishop to the priest, and that only those ordained have the authority to conduct the mass and perform any of the sacraments save baptism.
8, those without the sacrament of ordination do not possess this authority and cannot and should not conduct themselves in this fashion.
9, that ordination has been the teaching of the Church and is prefigured in Christ's baptism in the Jordan.
10, that ordination, thus prefigured must only occur to men.
11, that ordination, as a sacrament remains for life and cannot be removed.

Mass

12, that the sacrifice of the mass, must have the presentation and provision of the eucharist in order to be valid
13, that the body and blood of Christ is his true body and blood presented for us.
14, that Christ is the substitutionary sacrifice for our sins at the mass, and that this is repeated everytime one is offered.
15, that Christ is bodily present in both the wine and the bread
16, that the bread, once consecrated is to be kept in the tabernacle.
17. that the priest and the priest alone can consecrate the bread in the tabernacle.
18. that the bread and wine become the body and blood of christ at the presentation of the gifts during mass
19. that this process is referred to as transubstantiation - the understanding that while the accidents do not change, the substance does change

Bishops, apostolic succession:

10, that the bishops themselves are elected by the authority of the pope
11, that there is an unbroken chain of bishops dating back to the time of Christ and the Apostles
12, that the current bishops of the Catholic church have the authority granted by Christ to his Apostles to spread the Gospels to all nations.
13, that the magisterium of the Catholic church consists of the entirety of the college of bishops
14, that the magisterium of the Catholic church as a whole has the authority to teach and interpret scripture.

Papacy

13, that the pope is the vicar and the representative of Christ on earth
14, that the pope is the latest in an unbroken line from St. Peter as Bishop of Rome.
15, that the Bishop of Rome, as the apostolate of St. Peter has primacy over all the other bishoprics, and the authority to settle disputes.
16, that the pope is an electoral monarchy, elected from the college of Cardinals.
17, that cardinals are selected from the pool of bishops and elevated by the Pope.
16, that the pope, when speaking on matters of faith and morals speaks 'ex cathedra' and is infalliable.
17, that the recognition of all infalliable statements by the popes and understood by the magisterium as such must be accepted in order to be Catholic.

Confession

18, confession to a priest is valid, and priests have the power granted by Christ to absolve sins in his name.
19, there is a difference between venial sins and mortal sins, which involve both the sin and it's nature, and how the will is committed to either.

Marriage

20, that marriage between a catholic and non Catholic must receive dispensation by the Catholic church and that children are to be brought up in the Catholic faith.
21, that marriage is the union of a man and a woman and that this union cannot be deprived by either party except for a time,
22, contraception is not permitted.

Confirmation

20, confirmation as a sacrament occurs to any believer who expresses a sincere free willed desire to enter the Church and is willing to understand and undertake the Catholic faith in it's entirety.
21, confirmation can only be performed by the priest or a bishop.

Extreme unction.

22, The priest, may, upon the immenent and expected death of a Catholic person, may, at the request of that person, perform the sacrament on they dying.
23, the sacrament includes the prayer for the dying and anointing with oil.

The Bible

24, that the Bible was first compiled by the Catholic church in 380 by St. Jerome in the format adopted by the Latin Vulgate.
25, deviations from this bible that are missing books are considered mutilations of scripture and unreliable.
26, that the content of the biblical books are determined by the Catholic magisterium, and were set for all time by St. Athanasius in the early 4th century.
27, that the magisterium of the Catholic church retains the same teaching authority wrt scripture and scriptural disputes.
28, that scripture, while a source of reliable information of God, is to be balance with tradition. Scripture AND Tradition, not sola scriptura.

Grace

29, We are justified by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
30, that justification is unmerited - we have not earned justification through works, and it is only through Christ's death on a cross that we have obtained salvation.
31, it is possible through loss of faith and unconfessed mortal sin to lose one's salvation.

I think that covers all of it.

I can count the number of people who care on no fingers.

[Ben Kenobi]

For the record, the Church doesn't prohibit the death penalty, nor has it ever. The Church requires that the circumstances be appropriate however. Only cases where no other means are effective would warrant its use. If a convict can be controlled by non-lethal means, then the death penalty is unjust.

Yep. Thanks Felch.

[DinoDoc]

I can count the number of people who care on no fingers.

There's at least one or you wouldn't have responded.

[Ben Kenobi]

I can count the number of people who care on no fingers.

I'm sorry to hear you lost all your fingers through a tragic shop accident.

[DaShi]

Please die.

[Sava]

No Christian should be a right winger.

Conservative values are diametrically opposed to Christian values.

[Berzerker]

Single payer health care that includes coverage for abortion is a non-negotiable for Catholics. Catholics are required to be opposed to any such system and we are instructed to resist the implementation of said system in whichever way we can.

Does your health insurance cover abortion and contraception?

[DaShi]

There's at least one or you wouldn't have responded.

That's not funny at all. You're so conservative.

[Ben Kenobi]

Conservative values are diametrically opposed to Christian values.

I'd be curious for a comparison between what sava considers 'Christian values', and what Sava considers 'conservative values'.