Pope sends direct message to Ben

[molly bloom]

Right, because we all know that an athiest has no bias towards Roman Catholicism.

(Suppresses massive yawn)

[molly bloom]

Molly's moved from arguing, "it's impossible" to, "not all of them were Catholic martyrs". .

I've done nothing of the sort. I've distinguished, using an example from Mary Tudor's reign, of the difference between the punishment for treason and the punishment for heresy.

I've listed in detail who was killed where- using separate sources. You simply plucked a number out of your arse and said 'it must be so' and gave no sources to back this up.

How very like you.

Some folks have a permanent hate-on.

You certainly do for facts and historical accuracy.


By the way, this is yet another example of you being unable to admit a mistake.

Molly admitted the Pilgrimage of Grace wasn't taught.

No I didn't. You're a liar.

I asserted that it wasn't taught. Ergo, I do have an understanding of the curriculum over there.

Deluded and wrong. You have no understanding of the current teaching of history in English schools, still less of how history was taught at my grammar school.

You are a fantasist.

[QUOTE] [I wouldn't expect schools to differ radically.../QUOTE]

Then you're a stupid ignorant fantasist to boot.

I would guess, based on what I know of the curriculum

Which is zilch.

[molly bloom]

Yeah, one of me, 17 of you. It happens when I go back and go through the posts.

I would have thought that a supposedly rabid anti-Catholic ex-grammar school blatant homosexual like me was fairly distinct by now.

Or is that how you view everyone who doesn't queue up to kiss the Pope's ringpiece ?

[Elok]

Sorry, but if find his errors, lies and misrepresentations so blatant and reprehensible I can't let them slip by.

Why? He'll just trot out new lies (or recycle the old ones with a thin coat of paint), and it's not like anybody here believes any of them. You might as well scream at the crickets to stop chirping.

[SlowwHand]

So now crickets are bad?

[Elok]

Well, we can't flip a switch to make them inaudible while still letting us hear everything else, so they're arguably a bigger deal than BK.

[MrFun]

Hey Benny, do you still like the pope??

[DinoDoc]

Hey Benny, do you still like the pope??

Do you?

[MrFun]

Do you?

Did you miss this part of the article you linked?

While the Supreme Pontiff does have to sign off on excommunications, Francis may not be as directly responsible for Reynolds’ dismissal as it might initially appear. Excommunication processes tend to take a long time, even years ...

[DinoDoc]

Did you miss this part of the article you linked?

While the Supreme Pontiff does have to sign off on excommunications, Francis may not be as directly responsible for Reynolds’ dismissal as it might initially appear. Excommunication processes tend to take a long time, even years ...

Did you?

[Ben Kenobi]

Thanks DD. You're doing the Lord's work.

[Ben Kenobi]

that how you view everyone who doesn't queue up to kiss the Pope's ringpiece ?

I'll have you know that some of my best friends are heretics!

[kentonio]

Vatican Proposes Dramatic Shift In Attitude Towards Gays, Same Sex Couples

(Reuters) - In a dramatic shift in tone, a Vatican document said on Monday that homosexuals had "gifts and qualities to offer" and asked if Catholicism could accept gays and recognize positive aspects of same-sex couples.

The document, prepared after a week of discussions at an assembly of 200 bishops on the family, said the Church should challenge itself to find "a fraternal space" for homosexuals without compromising Catholic doctrine on family and matrimony.

While the text did not signal any change in the Church's condemnation of homosexual acts or its opposition to gay marriage, it used language that was less judgmental and more compassionate than past Vatican statements under previous popes.

The document will be the basis for discussion for the second and final week of the assembly, known as a synod, which was called by Pope Francis and focuses on the theme of the family.

It will also serve for further reflection among Catholics around the world ahead of another, definitive synod next year.

"Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a further space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home," said the document, known by its Latin name "relatio".

"Are our communities capable of proving that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?" it asked.

John Thavis, Vatican expert and author of the bestselling 2013 book "The Vatican Diaries", called the document "an earthquake" in the Church's attitude towards gays.

"The document clearly reflects Pope Francis' desire to adopt a more merciful pastoral approach on marriage and family issues," he said.

A number of participants at the closed-door synod have said the Church should tone down its condemnatory language when referring to gay couples and avoid phrases such as "intrinsically disordered" when speaking of homosexuals.

That was the phrase used by former Pope Benedict in a document written before his election, when he was still Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and head of the Vatican's doctrinal department.

EDUCATIONAL CHALLENGE

The language and tone of Monday's document, read to the assembly in the presence of Pope Francis, appeared to show that the advocates of a more merciful tone toward homosexuals and Catholics in so-called "irregular situations" had prevailed.

It said that the 1.2 billion-member Church should see the development of its position on homosexuals as "an important educational challenge" for the global institution.

While the Church continued to affirm that gay unions "cannot be considered on the same footing as matrimony between man and woman", it should recognize that there could be positive aspects to relationships in same-sex couples.

"Without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions it has to be noted that there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners," the document said.

Pope Francis has said the Church must be more compassionate with homosexuals, saying last year: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge."

The Church teaches that while homosexual tendencies are not sinful, homosexual acts are.

The document also showed considerable opening to heterosexual couples who were married only in civil services or who were living together, mentioning "positive aspects" of such unions, especially if the couple saw them as a prelude to marriage in the Church.

While Church marriages clearly were "the ideal" for Catholics, it said, there were "constructive elements in those situations that do not yet or no longer correspond to that ideal".

Catholics used to call such cohabitation arrangements "living in sin", another phrase that bishops at the synod were urged not to use when speaking about these couples.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_5976134.html

So Ben, two good questions there:

'are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a further space in our communities?'

'Are our communities capable of proving that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?'

Are you capable of obeying the Vaticans wishes, or are you going to be a heretic about the whole thing?

[-Jrabbit]

[Ben Kenobi]

So Ben, two good questions there:

'are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a further space in our communities?'

'Are our communities capable of proving that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?'

Are you capable of obeying the Vaticans wishes, or are you going to be a heretic about the whole thing?

I don't see how welcoming someone is compatible with essentially condemning them to hell. Repentance is for everyone. Before I became a Christian, I was welcomed, by some wonderful folks who are still close friends of mine.

Did they want me in their church? Absolutely. But, did they want me to repent of my sins and believe in Jesus as our Lord and Saviour? Also yes.

We perceive mercy as incompatible with discipline - but that is not so. Jesus himself tells us to accept correction as discipline - to leave behind a life of sin - because it is more merciful to address the sins one commits now - and to repent and to be spared condemnation in hell.

Also, Yahoo isn't the Supreme Pontiff. I should caution insisting Catholics obey the instructions of the media rather than the magisterium.