Bradley Manning wants to be a woman

[self biased]

Gender identity is more than sports and babies.

"Transgender people are probably one of the Most vulnerable groups in society right now. Crazy that someone could get so angry about a person decision to abandon the gender binary that they feel compelled to viciously attack them."

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2013...ating-cops-say

[notyoueither]

1. Someone here said it's still listed in DSM-V. Don't know if that's true and can't be arsed, but either way it hardly matters. The whole process for determining what is or is not a mental illness is imprecise (two people diagnosing the same patient can easily come up with wildly different results) and deeply corrupted by money and politics. In general the line of reasoning is "does Pfizer have a drug for treating this? Must be a mental illness, then." It seems Gender Identity Disorder, OTOH, has merely succumbed to political pressure. Either way, I don't put much faith in it, as it typically has no basis in objectively observable fact.

It is no longer a disorder in DSM-V

http://dot429.com/articles/2125-from-disorder-to-dysphoria-transgender-identity-and-the-dsm-v

Depression and other things that may accompany gender dysphoria can be treated with medication, BTW.

2. Differing brain function does not indicate health, as Reg said. If your brain functions like a woman's and you are not a woman, that indicates that your brain is wrong. Reality is not determined entirely by one person's mental state; if my brain works more like a dog's than a person's, I'm still human, I'm just a human whose brain is all wonky. I could buy "fundamentally we are our minds" if something purely mental were at stake here, but sex/gender is all tied up in the exact opposite end of the body.

This is pretty vacuous. I'm surprised that you are spouting crap like this.

You are a very thoughtful, intellectual person. Are you seriously going to suggest that features of our bodies are more important than our minds in determining who we are and what we should do?

The dog bit is simply rubbish. With gender dysphoria in individuals with otherwise 'perfect' bodies (chromosomes and whatnot) we are talking about very subtle differences in brain structure and function that have a massive impact on the mental life of the individual.

And no, gender is not all tied up in the opposite end of the body. That's the freeking point!

3. How do we know that their brains function like women's? If it's FMRI, there are about a dozen recently-published books explaining, in detail, how that entire technology has been blown ludicrously out of proportion. One of the more recent Ig Nobel winners put a dead fish up through an FMRI just to make a point--they noted that, by the standards generally used, its brain-use (actually oxygen consumption) pattern could be said to change in response to questions.

Of course, with all that said: I have no beef with just calling Bradley Chelsea or whatever. No skin off my back.

I've read it is also by post mortem physical examination. I'm not an expert so I have little to judge your example of the fish, however if it is like your other reasoning quoted I won't place very much credence in it.

[Elok]

What is gender, then, if it is distinct from physical sex? I've heard people claim that it is some kind of psychological awareness of one's sex, but to the extent that I appear to have such a gender at all, I derived it from others or from observation of the physical facts: my parents raised me as a boy, I'm aware that I have a penis and so do others labeled as men, etc. Possibly there is some little voice somewhere in my noggin continually broadcasting "you're a dude" messages, but if so the process is totally unconscious and I have no evidence for it.

If it refers to typically or stereotypically male or female behavior of a non-erotic type--e.g., women are usually less confrontational and more prone to seeking consensus in decisions--those are only statistical tendencies. I think and act "like a man" due to some biological factor or other (hormones and brain structure, I assume), but there are women who act more so, and men who act much less so, and they aren't all transgendered. To some extent those behaviors are socially conditioned anyway; ideas of proper male or female behavior vary dramatically between societies.

So, how do you define gender?

[notyoueither]

Gender is in your head. Most people are completely comfortable acting like and being treated like members of the the sex they have the equipment for.

There are people who are very uncomfortable acting and being treated like a member of the sex they have the body for. That is gender dysphoria. How they come about having it is almost certainly due to their brains functioning differently and then their life experiences. We can change their bodies. We can't reliably and productively change their minds at that fundamental level. It's not like deciding to not eat ice cream anymore.

We can also stop treating them in an abhorrent, bigoted, and all to often violent manner.

[Dinner]

One of the interesting things I found out from a recent NPR report was that a disproportional number of transgender people join the military hoping that such "manly" things as going to war would "cure" them of their feminine feelings/gender identity crisis. It makes sense in retrospect.

[Elok]

But what is a gender? How do you define it? I understand that they feel compelled to take on the social roles of the opposite sex, but if that's a gender, I believe the vast majority of people are genderless. It's impossible to know for sure, of course, but I think I act largely as society expects me to act. I have an aversion to crying in the sight of others or wearing a lot of pink and purple, only because in our society those behaviors are considered feminine. Both are culturally conditioned; in ancient Greece, a man was expected to show emotion at certain times to express his humanity, and purple was the color of emperors.

[notyoueither]

Gender is a lot of things. It's the masculine or feminine way you think, how you feel, how you react to ideas and events, how you express yourself, who you're attracted to, and a lot of other things. There are aspects to this mental experience that are consistent with the male gender (most males experience similar) and others that are consistent with the female (most females experience similar).

Sure, there are behaviours and other aspects the mental life that are socialised into us. There are also some that seem to be innate. A little boy being attracted to 'girlish' things is not something that has been socialised into the child. It's coming from somewhere within the person. That should be especially obvious given the grief inflicted on people who break gender norms, or the grief they experience when they are cudgeled into conforming.

[Alexander's Horse]

nonsense, I have bits

[Elok]

Two points:

1. All of those things, while correlated with masculinity/femininity, are not intrinsically 'masculine' or 'feminine' as such. The most obvious example being "who you're attracted to"; not all gay men are effeminate, nor are all lesbians butch. A woman can think in a manner we consider more manlike and not actually want to be a man. Et cetera.

2. All of those things are heavily culturally conditioned. The little boy may be attracted to girlish things, but the things considered girlish in any given society are pretty well arbitrary. He may fret tremendously over his personal appearance, put on lots of bright colors and makeup--and be acting quite manly by the standards of a number of warrior societies, whose men are expected to dress up and display themselves like male birds. There's nothing intrinsically male or female about any given custom; do they choose an activity based on a subconscious awareness that it's considered feminine, out of some kind of instinctive perversity? I mean, when I was little, I really liked the color purple, but it wasn't because I wanted to be a girl. I just really frigging liked the color purple. Relentless teasing of my purple backpack drove it out of me, but I got over it and today rather like blues and greens. Stupid, but no big deal. What you're describing honestly just sounds like an unfathomable desire to be contrary.

[notyoueither]

I think what you're saying is why some people prefer to ditch binary thinking, you are or are not - this or that, and prefer to look at these things along a continuum. There are completely homosexual people, and there are completely straight people, then there are some in the middle who can feel attraction to members of either sex.

Gender is likewise better described along a line with totally masculine and feminine at opposite ends. Most people will fall between the two extremes. A very few will be very far to the extreme that is not in agreement with their body. Some of them will benefit from changing their body to match their mind.

Yes, a lot of this is cultural, but some of it is also biological.

[Elok]

So, if the boy really wants to dress up in pretty colors, is it in reaction to the gender standard, or independent of it? That is, if he lived in a society where he was expected to pretty up, wear makeup and dance, would he be perfectly happy because he wanted to do that anyway, or would he instead be inclined to do whatever it is women do in such societies and resent attempts to make him look glam?

It seems like a no-go either way. If it's independent, it's not sex/gender-linked, he just for some reason really likes something that happens to be associated with a specific gender. If it's in reaction, on the other hand, I don't see how you can argue that it's not to a certain extent pathological.

[Lorizael]

Your trouble in defining just what gender is, Elok, is why I think we'd all be better off just dispensing with the concept.

[Elok]

The thing is, it's not a significant problem for the vast majority of the population, and getting rid of it would entail massive societal turmoil if not the genetic modification of the whole human race; if biological sexes were abandoned as well, you'd need to overhaul almost everything about the way we live to accommodate asexuality or...hermaphroditism? Whatever the noun form is. With oodles of unforeseen consequences, of course. Nooot worth it.

[notyoueither]

So, if the boy really wants to dress up in pretty colors, is it in reaction to the gender standard, or independent of it? That is, if he lived in a society where he was expected to pretty up, wear makeup and dance, would he be perfectly happy because he wanted to do that anyway, or would he instead be inclined to do whatever it is women do in such societies and resent attempts to make him look glam?

It seems like a no-go either way. If it's independent, it's not sex/gender-linked, he just for some reason really likes something that happens to be associated with a specific gender. If it's in reaction, on the other hand, I don't see how you can argue that it's not to a certain extent pathological.

Or the boy is thinking like a girl and is influenced by what other girls are doing? A little of both?

You're looking for black and white in a field of grey.

[DaShi]

Nothing unmanly about wearing a dress.

Percival is the manliest man ever to wear a dress
Posted on February 20, 2011
alright guys
just got commissioned to tell the story of the holy grail
by sexy action hero Chuck “The Joy of Killing” Manslaughter
but here is the problem my friends
THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF DUDES WHO ARE LOOKING FOR THE GRAIL
AND YOU GUYS DON’T KNOW JACK **** ABOUT WHO THEY ARE
so for the next week or so
I am going to be telling you EXACTLY who those ****ers are
starting RIGHT NOW
with Percival

alright so Percival right

some people call him Parcifal or whatever
but those people have speech impediments
anyway this kid is the youngest son of this dude King Pellenor
(this **** is going to be RIFE with hyperlinks in a couple weeks)
and let me give you a quick rundown of Percival’s family tree
King Pellenor:
DEAD
His brother Tor:
KNIGHT OF THE ROUND TABLE
his brothers Aglavale Lamorak and Dornar:
DITTO
his mother:
FREAKING THE **** OUT
she is like **** man
I am dishing out sons like clean needles to heroin junkies
**** HAS GOT TO STOP
oh I know
how about I raise my remaining son AS A WOMAN
THEN HE WILL NEVER BECOME A KNIGHT
DING DING PERFECT

so percival gets raised as a woman
he learns how to crochet and knit and embroider
and not use swords
and tuck in his balls
except then one day he is playing dolls with his sister
and he hears some **** going on outside the castle walls
and he is like WHOA WHAT IS THAT
and he climbs up and sees some ****ing KNIGHTS
and he is like hey hey mom
what the **** are those things they look AWESOME
and his mom is like uh er oh
those are angels
clearly
you get to be those when you die
so Percival runs over to his sister
and he is like hey sis
i need you to do me a favor
kill me with a rock so i turn into an angel
GREAT JOB PROTECTING YOUR SON FROM HARM ****TYMOM
but luckily his sister is like ew no
what
and Percival is like FUUUUUUCK FINE
and proceeds to just sneak out of the castle
for the first time ever
to go see what these knights are all about

so he runs up to the knights and he hides in the bushes
which scares the **** out of everybody’s horses
and the knights are like WHOA HEY
WHO THE **** ARE YOU
WHY ARE YOU WEARING A DRESS
ARE YOU GAY SON
IS THAT WHAT’S GOING ON HERE
and percival is like what
i expected angels to yell less
and the knights are like SON WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
WE ARE KNIGHTS WE MURDER ****
and percival is like oohhhh okay
so i’ve been lied to by my mom i guess
hey can I also be a knight?
and they are like WELL NO YOU’RE STILL LIKE 12
BUT COME HIT US UP WHEN YOU GROW PUBES
YOU CAN TOTALLY BE A KNIGHT AT THAT JUNCTURE

so percival goes back home
and his mom is like where the **** were you
and percival is like nevermind that
as soon as I am a man i’m gonna be a knight
LOOKS LIKE YOU ****ED UP PROTECTING ME WOMAN
and his mom is like **** **** ****
but then she’s like no calm down ****tymom
you can handle this
all you gotta do
is keep telling him he’s twelve years old
FOREVER
HE’LL TOTALLY BELIEVE ME WHAT A FOOLPROOF PLAN

so she proceeds to do this for YEARS AND YEARS
until Percival is 16
which is the agreed upon age
at which dudes can just start murdering each other
at which point some random ******* knight
just shows up
kicks down the gates of the castle
and prepares to rape the **** out of Percival’s mom and sister
and percival shows up
remember
he is still wearing a dress
and the evil knight is like WHOA YOU ARE AN UGLY *****
and percival is like am i really
and the knight is like **** YEAH TARTNUGGET
and percival is like could a really ugly *****
pick you up bodily and throw you over the castle walls
such that you EXPLODE INTO SEVERAL PIECES
and the evil knight doesn’t say anything
because it is hard to say things when you are exploded into pieces

so then percival unties his sister and his mom
and he’s like hey mom
i think i might be an adult now
i mean i just murdered a dude and everything
but his mom is like no son that wasn’t even a big deal what you just did
and percival is like well what about my moustache
and his mom is like no son that is a skin disease
and this creates for percival some SERIOUS BODY IMAGE ISSUES

and then some MORE time passes
and one day percival and his mom and sister are all knitting or whatever
and a ****ing COCKATRICE shows up
GUYS DO YOU KNOW WHAT A COCKATRICE IS?
I BARELY EVEN ****ING KNOW
SOME KIND OF LIKE
PARALYZING ACID BIRD?
DOES IT TURN YOU TO STONE?
DOES IT MELT YOU?
IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU TRUST THOMAS BERGER
OR DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS
AND I WOULD NOT TRUST THOMAS BERGER WITH ANYTHING
HE IS AN EXCEEDINGLY SKETCHY GUY
but anyway it doesn’t matter
because percival just tears a TREE out of the ground
turns it into a spear
then THROWS IT INTO THAT MOTHER****ER’S EYE
and while the cockatrice is like crying and bleeding acid
percival turns to his mom and sister
like guys
i think i am probably a man at this point
that felt pretty manly what i just did
and his mom is like NO SON THAT WAS JUST A DOG
and percival is like ***** I HAVE SEEN DOGS BEFORE
I AM GOING TO GO BE A KNIGHT NOW SO JUST CHILL THE **** OUT
and he leaves
and presumably
since he is no longer at home to protect them
his mom and sister proceed to get eaten by a ****ing chimera

so the first thing that happens on the road
is percival is walking along
STILL IN A DRESS MIND YOU
HE DID NOT THINK TO TRY AND LOOT SOME MANCLOTHES
FROM THE ****ING CASTLE HE LIVES IN
anyway he comes across a tinker
and he’s like dude what’s good
and the tinker is like HAHAHA YOU ****ING SODOMITE
and percival picks him up bodily and shakes him a little
and then is like dude i just need to know where to sell my clothes
which are made of gold and silk and ****
and the tinker is like uh well oh
just give those to me
and i will give you my ****ty wagon full of worthless tin
and also this donkey I ride around on
and percival is like CAN DEALS GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS?

so the tinker goes off to sell the **** out of percival’s ****
and meanwhile percival makes some ****ty armor out of all the tin
and then he makes some ****ty weapons out of the wagon
and then he can’t even ride the donkey cause he’s too heavy
meanwhile the tinker gets arrested in the next town
because everyone is like you total *****
i bet you stole that ****
but then it’s ok because percival shows up
and is like guys it’s cool he’s not a thief i’m just stupid
and everyone is like oh ok
let’s believe the dude with the potlid for a hat
THUS PERCIVAL RIGHTS HIS FIRST WRONG
PERCIVAL: ULTIMATE KNIGHT?

anyway then pretty quick after that
he finds a damsel in distress
she’s chained up in a shack
and he just snaps the chains by kind of looking at them funny
and then the evil knight who put her there shows up
and is like ok dude
you look like a ****ing clown
so here’s what we’re going to do
you tell me some jokes
and for each one that is funny
i will give you a gold coin
and then for each one that is not funny
you get to eat some **** from my horse
sound fair?
and percival is like how about I kill you instead
and the knight is like NOT FUNNY
LET ME GET SOME HORSE**** FOR YOU TO EAT
and then percival is like dude now you have **** on your hands
you’re going to die with **** on your hands
that’s embarassing
and then he proceeds to kill him and take all his possessions

BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM
all of that evil knight’s possessions
INCLUDES that damsel in distress
and it turns out that damsel is ***** of the year TEN YEARS RUNNING
she is constantly complaining about the dust and the heat
and gnats and flies
and like the lack of color television and bullet trains
but percival is such a nice dude
he just keeps trying to make her happy
while she tries to make him AS MISERABLE AS POSSIBLE
but at least when they bed down for the night
after forcing percival to build her a shelter
and then sleep outside in the rain
in his armor
WHICH IS THE ONLY CLOTHES HE HAS
she does invite him inside and have sex with him
although to be honest percival has no idea what’s going on
he’s just kind of like whoa what
what are you doing
stop moving around so much
whoa now
hey there
WE HAVE DIFFERENT SHAPED GENITALIA WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THEM
and then the day after
when some piece of **** lesser knight
who is somehow from the round table
insults percival and then tries to kill him
and percival just kind of snaps his arm in half
this worthless ***** of a damsel is like welp
this guy is clearly more of an ******* than you are percival
i guess I better start ****ing HIM now
and percival finally doesn’t have to deal with her **** anymore

BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE HAS NO **** TO DEAL WITH
no pretty much this whole story
is a great big deluge of ****
a torrential downpour of feces
laser targeted on percival
but luckily
PERCIVAL SEEMS TO BE MADE ENTIRELY OUT OF UMBRELLAS
anyway the next thing that happens
is percival is like about to get to camelot
when Lancelot sees him
now see lancelot is out in the orchards of Camelot
boning the **** out of King Arthur’s Wife Guenevere
(more on that later)
when he sees Percival wearing that sweet armor
that he stole from that other ***** earlier
but see the problem with this armor
is that on the shield
there is a picture of a unicorn MURDERING A LION
GUYS I DIDN’T KNOW UNICORNS COULD MURDER LIONS
SUDDENLY I AM WONDERING ABOUT OTHER THINGS
CAN CUPCAKES BEAT THE **** OUT OF DINOSAURS?
CAN RAINBOWS MURDER THE PRESIDENT?
anyway Lancelot actually has two problems with this picture
problem one: Lancelot’s favorite animal is Lions
problem two: the unicorn reminds him of his erectile dysfunction
so BOOM
suddenly it is fight time
here are our contestants:
Lancelot
greatest knight in the world
versus Percival
dude who just stopped wearing dresses yesterday
BUT GUESS WHO WINS
YES IT IS PERCIVAL
BECAUSE THIS IS A STORY ABOUT PERCIVAL
I WILL TELL YOU STORIES WHERE LANCELOT WINS THINGS ANOTHER TIME
yeah i don’t know how he does it
i mean it’s not like he has sword training or anything
the closest he has is embroidery training
and that isn’t close at all
but he somehow manages to just romp and stomp Lancelot
up to the point where he ****ing knocks the sword out of Lancelot’s hands
at which point Percival is like whoa timeout
and Lancelot is like what?
you’re not going to kill me or anything?
and Percival is like dude you were winning
i think you just accidentally dropped your sword or something
and Lancelot is like I LIKE A DUDE WHO PLAYS TO MY BRUISED EGO
COME LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO KING ARTHUR

so lancelot takes Percival over to Arthur’s place
and Arthur is like who is this *******
and Lancelot is like his name is percival
you should just go ahead and knight him right away
trust me
and arthur
who is pretty senile at this point in the story
is like yeah sure whatever
and he knights percival
and then percival is like sweet so i’m a knight now
got any quests?
and arthur is like hm ****
we kind of ran out of quests
back when I ERADICATED ALL CRIME IN ENGLAND
basically what all the knights are doing now
is looking for the Holy Grail
i’m not even entirely sure what that thing is
or where it is
or even if it exists
but they’re all out looking for it
basically because there isn’t much else to do
so how about you do that?
and Percival is like THAT SOUNDS AMAZING
and THAT is how Percival starts questing for the Grail

So the moral of the story
is you should make all your male children wear dresses
and lie to them repeatedly about their age
it will make them THE ULTIMATE FIGHTERS

THE END

http://bettermyths.com/percival-is-the-manliest-man-ever-to-wear-a-dress/