Why raising taxes is nessecary

[notyoueither]

I think they're shooting for a reinvigorating effect of a district as they did in Columbus, LA, and a couple of ball parks.

[Wezil]

Providing adequate public services would probably go a lot further toward reinvigorating the city than a new arena would.

[Wezil]

Also keep in mind - They are replacing the 20,000 seat arena with an 18,000 seat arena.

By my math that is 2000 fewer spectators per event and, presumably, fewer employees to operate.

Detroit will not recover until people decide it is a city they can live in. A new arena isn't the deal breaker. 1 hour 911 response times just might be.

[notyoueither]

From what I've read the Joe is not in a good area and it's coming up on 40 years old, which by standards today is old (concessions, comfort, etc).

The public funds are coming from a State tax for development of downtown Detroit. No City funds involved, but State funds earmarked specifically for such development.

I'm not familiar with the geography, but the new district is said to link a good area of downtown with another in midtown, whatever that means.

And no, the State was not going to pump funds into keeping a corrupt civic government continuing to shovel money to public employees. This is not an either or.

[Wezil]

It's corporate welfare. Pro team owners are the biggest bums out there.

It won't do **** for Detroit but I'm sure the Ilitz's will be happy. This is how to stay rich.

[Wezil]

And it's somewhat strange to hear Detroiter's are apparently not part of the State (not their taxes eh?).

[notyoueither]

Most of them are pretty poor so it's not likely that much of the State fund came from people who live in Detroit, no.

The city is really ****ed.

[Wezil]

Were you waiting for me to get up before starting again? I literally just made a tea and lit my first smoke.


I'm pessimistic on Detroit's future as well. I remember when the casinos arrived and they were heralded as what was needed to turn things around. Didn't work obviously. Heck, if you want to go far enough back, Joe Louis Arena was built at the beginning of the slide (68 I believe) so this can be the second arena revitalization.

[notyoueither]

From what I've read the Joe was plopped into the middle of a pretty rough area.

They're a lot smarter about arenas now, having learned lessons from the wastelands created by dropping a UFO down in the middle of a sea of parking. When done right as part of a district with good design it can create a really attractive place for people to gather (and spend $).

Detroit is a great example of a muni that could use one of these districts. The City proper has fewer people than the much richer surrounding communities. Getting cash from those richer communities into the City is a good thing so I can see why the State would back something like this. Especially so since I believe Illich is paying a majority of the costs and it is on land already owned or controlled by him.

[Wezil]

It's about half and half public/private with Ilytch putting in some of the public.

The current arena is also owned by the city.

Getting cash from the neighbouring communities won't solve Detroit's problem, particularly since as I pointed out, you will be bringing in 10% fewer spectators (and their cash) to each event.

Detroit will recover when people decide to live there and not just drive in for a game or show just to leave again.

[Wezil]

It's too bad the hockey industry can't survive without corporate welfare.

How much did your rich team owner take you guys for?

[notyoueither]

It's about half and half public/private with Ilytch putting in some of the public.

The current arena is also owned by the city.

Getting cash from the neighbouring communities won't solve Detroit's problem, particularly since as I pointed out, you will be bringing in 10% fewer spectators (and their cash) to each event.

Detroit will recover when people decide to live there and not just drive in for a game or show just to leave again.

Fewer seats, but if more events bring people to the area and they stay longer spending more businesses in the City will be better off. That's a move in the right direction for the City.

Also areas like the district in Columbus are attractions when young people are deciding where to locate. You have to have something other than burned out brown fields to begin the process of getting people back living in the City.

[notyoueither]

It's too bad the hockey industry can't survive without corporate welfare.

How much did your rich team owner take you guys for?

Not much.

There is a ticket tax for a large chunk. Then the City will use a fraction of proceeds from increases in property taxes in the area to pay the balance of the City's share.

The increases in property taxes are not a mirage. Building began happening in the area as soon as it became clear that the old UFO in an industrial / low-rent area was going to be replaced with a district downtown.

Edmonton is like Detroit in that the City is surrounded by bedroom parasites where high income people congregate.

[Wezil]

Also areas like the district in Columbus are attractions when young people are deciding where to locate. You have to have something other than burned out brown fields to begin the process of getting people back living in the City.

The point I was trying to make earlier.

Making the city livable for the residents should be the goal. The money spent on this new arena could have been better spent on that task.

[Wezil]

...and no, that doesn't imply I favour a bloated civil service.

It isn't an either/or.