WH on NSA snooping: You can totally trust us.

[Hauldren Collider]

Kentonio just kind of doesn't understand the notion of limited government in general. It's a common European affliction.

[korn469]

Kentonio just kind of doesn't understand the notion of limited government in general. It's a common European affliction.

Isn't Kentonio from like New Zealand?

[DinoDoc]

Isn't Kentonio from like New Zealand?

UK.

[kentonio]

Kentonio just kind of doesn't understand the notion of limited government in general. It's a common European affliction.

Europe is fine with the adult idea of a complex relationship of people and state where social contracts ensure the health and well being of all citizens. Obviously America is not grown up enough yet to deal with these ideas, and would rather hark back to that glorious long lost age where most people were basically indentured servants, the old and sick ended up in the poor house and real men walked around with guns on their hip. If you ever did grow up to the point where you accepted government is nothing more than an expression of the people, then you might ensure you had adequate measures in place to control it without actually crippling it in the process.

[giblets]

The failure here is not the concept of government or even the checks and balances, the failure lies squarely with you and everyone else who didnt object and use your vote to fight against the Patriot Act and the other legislation that led to this point. You folks voted them in, and now they're governing you in the way you deserve.

Well, Americans did elect a presidential candidate who was criticizing this sort of stuff back in 2008, but he seems to be mostly okay with it now.

[DinoDoc]

... adequate measures in place to control it without actually crippling it in the process.

We seem to be witnessing the simultaneous failure of those measures from the IRS, to the DoJ, and now it seems to our broader national security apparatus. What's the argument for increasing the power of the state you can credibly make in the face of these abuses?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Neither "the government" nor "the state" are monolithic entities. It is possible to grow parts of them while shrinking others.

[Colonâ„¢]

Here's the tattletale: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22836378

Is it unreasonable for me to hate the guy even though I don't really like snooping business?

[Felch]

I like how he fled to Hong Kong because of its "strong tradition of free speech." Hasn't anybody outside this forum ever heard of Finland?

[DinoDoc]

I like how he fled to Hong Kong because of its "strong tradition of free speech." Hasn't anybody outside this forum ever heard of Finland?

Finland has an extradition treaty with the US. As far as I can tell China does not. You could argue given his crime he could have chosen a less ironic country to flee to though.

[giblets]

Is that a reference to "Finlandization"? Beijing doesn't have any reason to hate this guy as far as I can tell so I don't see how the term is applicable.

[Sava]

Kentonio just kind of doesn't understand the notion of limited government in general. It's a common European affliction.

You are a much better poster when you don't sound like a Republican talking points machine.

[Colonâ„¢]

I'm sure Beijing will be happy to hand him over after milking it for all its worth to embarass the US.

[Elok]

Europe is fine with the adult idea of a complex relationship of people and state where social contracts ensure the health and well being of all citizens. Obviously America is not grown up enough yet to deal with these ideas, and would rather hark back to that glorious long lost age where most people were basically indentured servants, the old and sick ended up in the poor house and real men walked around with guns on their hip. If you ever did grow up to the point where you accepted government is nothing more than an expression of the people, then you might ensure you had adequate measures in place to control it without actually crippling it in the process.

It's a good thing you've watched enough of our cable news to understand our collective psyche so thoroughly. You even got the part where we respond positively and constructively to haughty Europeans talking down to us.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm sure Beijing will be happy to hand him over after getting him to tell them everything he didn't tell the Guardian.

FTFY