Do our resident conservatives and republicans truly believe women are biologically suited to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen?

[Ben Kenobi]

I think the lesson is, don't be such an *******. And even if you can't help it (LIKE SOME OF US), do your best to be aware of how much you suck and try to offset it in other ways... like be liberal. Because the authoritarianism inherent to conservatism is pretty ****ing horrible. It's hard to imagine any of those people not going to hell.

So the solution to my faith issues is to give into people who are feeding those issues in the first place? No sale. Sorry.

[giblets]

Ben is prematurely senile.

[Ben Kenobi]

My point isn't to insult you or make you feel bad. But you speak about so many issues as if you are humanity's connection to God.

I prefaced my first post in the thread saying:

"You want to know what I think?"

How about showing some ****ing humility? I think Jesus was pretty big on that.

I think Jesus got it right in what he teaches about wanting to give your life up for the woman you love. I believe that if you feel this way about a lady, you should get married to her.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben is prematurely senile.

Having to wear hearing aids when you are young really makes you *feel* like an older person. I've always felt this way.

[Sava]

So the solution to my faith issues is to give into people who are feeding those issues in the first place? No sale. Sorry.

"feeding those issues"?

How so?

Jesus ultimately explained what living a Christian life is. Be good to other people.

That's it.

Hating gay people? That's old testament nonsense.

Do you wear mixed fabrics? Polyester cotton blends? Old Testament God said that's worse than being gay.

Eat pork? Shave your beard?

Sorry BK... can't do it. Not according to Leviticus.

Your conservative beliefs are political, not religious... you just like to pretend they are religious because you find comfort in the Church you chose. And you are well aware of the facts about that institution.

[Ben Kenobi]

"feeding those issues"?

How so?

That's a good question. Let's see. My whole family is liberal. My whole family doesn't like or understand Catholicism. I live far away from this part of my family. I used to live with this part of my family and they were not supportive. Still aren't. I love my mother and my brothers, but it gets tiresome debating this over with them. I get Dan Brown books for my Birthday and get told how the Catholic church is responsible for the evil in the world when I call home.

I get a lecture about how lucky I am to live under Obama's paradise and not the evil Stephen Harper.

Jesus ultimately explained what living a Christian life is. Be good to other people.

He says that you love other people, because they were made by God. "The two commandments are this - Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and the second is like it, "love your neighbour as yourself."

I believe we are called to do what we can - personally - to help our neighbours. Voluntarily. Not in forcing others to give what we believe they ought to give and then giving it to others whom we believe get what we believe they should get and then taking a cut for 'expenses'. That's not charity. That's theft.

Hating gay people? That's old testament nonsense.

Who you are is not what you do. This is a fundamental principle of identity. You are not defined as a person by what you do. Who you are as a person does not change. This is why it's important to divide the sense of self - from the sins we commit. Love the sinner (the person), and hate the things they do (the sin).

Your conservative beliefs are political, not religious... you just like to pretend they are religious because you find comfort in the Church you chose. And you are well aware of the facts about that institution.

I'm a Hobbesian by political philosophy. I believe that mankind is sinful and is only redeemed by the help of God and that left to their own devices would destroy themselves. Laws need to restrain man and Laws need to be based on fundamental principles that do not change. I believe human nature is fixed. All of these concepts are congruent with the Christian faith in all form, but none of these principles require the Christian faith in order to operate.

Liberals, by political philosophy have several persuasions but the most common of these are Rousseau. Rousseau talks about how if society is fixed, mankind will be fixed. And then there is Neitzsche who teaches that mankind cannot change his nature because there is no point to changing the nature. Essentially - it is good for man to be governed by his nature and bad to resist and deny that nature even if it indulges in things we see as sinful.

Then you have Marx who teaches that there is no spiritual world, that the world is entirely material, and that people do not exist as individuals, but as classes. Their primary motivation as a class is to advance in material prosperity and the best way to achieve this prosperity is to own the means of production and that the wealth of the nation must be equitably divided.

So, I guess my question for you is this. Which kind of liberal would you insist I become?

[Sava]

You make things too complicated. Also, **** all those philosophers. If they were here now, those idiots couldn't even get an alarm clock to stop flashing 12:00 after plugging it in.

Not in forcing others to give what we believe they ought to give and then giving it to others whom we believe get what we believe they should get and then taking a cut for 'expenses'. That's not charity. That's theft.

No. That's taxation. And Jesus said to pay your taxes.

You have so many beliefs that directly conflict with Christ. I don't know how you manage to consider yourself a Christian.

[Ben Kenobi]

You make things too complicated.

If I've seen Waterhouse why would the Group of 12 satisfy?

Also, **** all those philosophers. If they were here now, those idiots couldn't even get an alarm clock to stop flashing 12:00 after plugging it in.

Where else would one find a principle of Being? A motive force? Your alarm clock tells you what, it does not tell you why.

That's taxation. And Jesus said to pay your taxes.

Jesus said not to obey an unjust law. A law that forces the Christian to support abortion or get arrested and thrown in jail is an unjust law. It has no moral force on the Christian.

You have so many beliefs that directly conflict with Christ. I don't know how you manage to consider yourself a Christian.

If one examines the passage, Jesus and his disciples were crossing a bridge. The tax collected is what we would call a toll. I see nowhere in scripture where Jesus permits us to submit to an income tax. Taxation on the consumption of goods (Ie, a bridge toll), is fine.

If the state cannot run on funding from tolls and sales tax, then the state needs to shrink and stop funding things which have nothing to do with the constitutional authority of the state.

The Christian is commanded to be wise stewards of wealth - and to be generous to those with less. Our generosity must be wise - we cannot contribute to someone else falling into sin through our donations. This is why Christian financial support for abortion services is wrong, and why using our tax dollars to fund abortion forces Christians to participate with something that is abhorrent to our faith.

[giblets]

LOL if you can find one single thing the government does that you consider immoral then you don't have to pay taxes. Cool

[Sava]

BK, you are twisting religion to fit your own beliefs... not following the teachings of Christ.

Until you stop doing that, I can't help you bro.

[Ben Kenobi]

if you can find one single thing the government does that you consider immoral then you don't have to pay taxes. Cool

I fail to see why abortion must be funded by the state. Money is fungible, after all. I cannot divide up a dollar and parse one out and say that THIS is the one that goes to planned parenthood.

[Ben Kenobi]

you are twisting religion to fit your own beliefs... not following the teachings of Christ.

Show me where an income tax appears in scripture then. As I said, the tax in scripture refers to what we call a 'toll'.

[SlowwHand]

And/or a Tithe.

[Ben Kenobi]

And/or a Tithe.

Which is always a tenth and no more. God commands the Israelites to contribute a tithe to support the state, which is fixed at a tenth.

Is taxation today a tenth of what you earn?

[Sava]

BK, you can't pick and choose which policies you disapprove of and say RAWROBAMA.

Jesus said pay your taxes. Obey the law.

If you disapprove, work within the system to change it.

But don't pretend that it's okay to not pay taxes or obey the law. That goes against teachings.

And don't quibble about "one tenth" this or that. There are enough quotes to show that Jesus said taxes are fine... as a concept... no specifics.

If you worry about certain tax rates or income versus sales, you are playing the fundamentalist and not the Christian.