It should be possible to ungive the Noble Prize

[kentonio]

The church at different times criticized, collaborated, castigated and supported the Nazi regime. It isn't fair to call the church as a whole Nazi apologists, because there were some unbelievably brave priests and other church figures who risked (and often lost) their lives opposing the regime, but there were plenty of others that sold their souls.

When I mentioned Ben being a religious fanatic the emphasis was firmly on the word fanatic.

[Sava]

You still seem to be wrong about the Church not speaking out against the Nazis.

My only "error" would be in thinking of "the Church" as a monolithic entity.

I got you to bite, so my original statement is a success.

[molly bloom]

I am sorry to keep posting, but to me it feels like Ben is a Nazi apologist.

I don't think you're far wrong. Some of South Africa's leading politicians up to and including the most repressive years of apartheid were detained during WWII because of their treasonous links with the Nazi regime and with Nazi sympathizers in South West Africa.

Don't forget, Ben joined the Catholic Church of his own choice:

The fact that the Curia is now making its peace with Fascism shows that the Vatican trusts the new political realities far more than did the former liberal democracy with which it could not come to terms.

By trying to preach that democracy is still in the best interests of German Catholics the Centre Party ... is placing itself in stark contradiction to the spirit of the treaty signed today by the Holy See.

Volkischer Beobachter, 1929 on the signing of the Lateran Treaty

Poor Ben- moist at the gusset at the thought of those balmy days of Church & Fascist cooperation, all he can do now is get teary eyed at the golden age of Pass Laws, political repression, murder, assassination and deliberate underdevelopment of black South Africans.

[molly bloom]

And I actually don't know anything about Mandela.

Fixed for accuracy's sake.

[regexcellent]

there were some unbelievably brave priests and other church figures who risked (and often lost) their lives opposing the regime

Notably, Pope John Paul II

[Sava]

JP DEUCE

[Ben Kenobi]

Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.

Thank you Dino Doc.

I'm not quite sure how one becomes a Nazi for attacking Socialist terrorists like Mandela. National Socialist Party, and all.

Also, if you are praising Boenhoffer, why about Thomas Haecker who helped start the White Rose? What about Bishop August Graf von Galen?

[Ben Kenobi]

There wasn't mass murder of white south africans.

Even Desmond Tutu has abandoned the ANC as a party of terrorists.

[Jon Miller]

What does that have to do with Mandela?

Also, it wasn't due to the ANC being terrorists. It was due to them being corrupt.

Tutu said he would no longer vote for ANC. He most likely did for Mandela.

JM

[Jon Miller]

And how does that have anything to do with there not being a mass murder of whites.

No one has not voted for ANC because they allowed the mass murder of whites. Because they didn't allow the mass murder of whites! Or support it. They kept it from happening under Mandela! And did in the end keep Malema from power, so are still not engaging in it.

Also, ANC does not equal Mandela and has not even been equivalent to the Mandela faction for ~5 years.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

Tutu said he would no longer vote for ANC. He most likely did for Mandela.

They just participated in a massacre of white people. Tutu finally saw the forest for the trees.

Now - if you're willing to side with a terrorist organization, fine by me, but when when one of your ardent supporters says that he's had enough, I think that speaks volumes.

Who's the real Nazi here, me and Tutu for opposing the ANC or you for supporting them?

[kentonio]

You, you racist little *****.

[Jon Miller]

I don't support the ANC, I don't like them and I don't think they govern well

they haven't massacred any white people though, they are not terrorists, they don't even behave in a very socialist way (especially considering a significant part of them is a communist party)

I do support Mandela, he has had nothing to do with how the ANC rules for years and is basically senile now

Even if he wasn't senile and did support the ANC now, it still wouldn't change the amazing thing he did in the 1990s

but considering your complete lack of honesty, you can't recognize that (instead accusing him of the thing that he stopped from happening)

JM

[Jon Miller]

I support DA, for what it matters

JM

[N35t0r]

Thank you Dino Doc.

I'm not quite sure how one becomes a Nazi for attacking Socialist terrorists like Mandela. National Socialist Party, and all.

Also, if you are praising Boenhoffer, why about Thomas Haecker who helped start the White Rose? What about Bishop August Graf von Galen?

Washington: a socialist terrorist according to Ben.