Benghazi Will Screw Obama, Which He Deserves

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm sure the Framers would have never meant to exclude the children of military personnel stationed outside the states, they'd undoubtedly be citizens of their parent's state.

This is where appealing to the Framers makes little to no sense. The Framers wouldn't ever conceive of military personnel stationed outside the states. I mean they were still fighting over whether to have a permanent standing army a decade after the Constitution was ratified.

[SlowwHand]

"The White House Has a New Slogan About Benghazi - Hope and Change the Subject." -- Jay Leno

[Elok]

Actually it was more 'There are huge numbers of openly racist teabaggers and GOP types who hate Obama because of his race. You exhibit unexplained hatred towards the man for no discernible reason. Ergo I can only assume race is also your primary motivator'.

Teabaggers are/were the radical wing of the GOP, intent on purging the party of moderates--not really representative of the mainstream, assuming there is a mainstream anymore. In addition, they weren't exactly a homogenous group; there were a bunch of birthers among them, but also a bunch of pro-lifers, a bunch of gun nuts, a bunch of Mexican-haters, probably a bunch who thought David Icke's lizardmen were running Congress...the only common element was a belief in low taxes and a dislike of the President. I don't know who you mean by "GOP types," since the only clear case of racism you've cited thus far is a couple of teabaggers with Obama=monkey posters.

In addition, note that your initial "they hate the president despite [reasons I think they shouldn't]" argument relies on the tacit assumption that they are acting on the same information you are. In the age of cable news and the internet, that assumption is immensely improbable. Get a couple hundred randomly selected Obama-bashers together, and I'll wager you a good fifth of 'em think "death panels" are totally a real thing now.

Finally, while there certainly is an element of bigotry among the opposition--I only contest your claim that it's basically their whole motivation--the bigotry is probably more religious than racial. It doesn't matter that he's black when he was raised in a madrassa, y'know.

[kentonio]

Teabaggers are/were the radical wing of the GOP, intent on purging the party of moderates--not really representative of the mainstream, assuming there is a mainstream anymore. In addition, they weren't exactly a homogenous group; there were a bunch of birthers among them, but also a bunch of pro-lifers, a bunch of gun nuts, a bunch of Mexican-haters, probably a bunch who thought David Icke's lizardmen were running Congress...the only common element was a belief in low taxes and a dislike of the President. I don't know who you mean by "GOP types," since the only clear case of racism you've cited thus far is a couple of teabaggers with Obama=monkey posters.

28% of Republicans identify as primarily Tea Party. Numerous Republican congressmen and senators are in office now purely because of support from the Tea Party. These aren't some tiny extremist fringe we're talking about here.

In addition, note that your initial "they hate the president despite [reasons I think they shouldn't]" argument relies on the tacit assumption that they are acting on the same information you are. In the age of cable news and the internet, that assumption is immensely improbable. Get a couple hundred randomly selected Obama-bashers together, and I'll wager you a good fifth of 'em think "death panels" are totally a real thing now.

Would those same people buy into those lies if the candidate/president was a white guy from Virginia?

Finally, while there certainly is an element of bigotry among the opposition--I only contest your claim that it's basically their whole motivation--the bigotry is probably more religious than racial. It doesn't matter that he's black when he was raised in a madrassa, y'know.

There's certainly a huge amount of religious hate, but much of it at its core is racial.

[kentonio]

DP

[Elok]

28% of Republicans identify as primarily Tea Party. Numerous Republican congressmen and senators are in office now purely because of support from the Tea Party. These aren't some tiny extremist fringe we're talking about here.

Wow, so that's...a quarter of them, more or less. A few of whom, at certain rallies, waved racist signs. Wild guess here: if you do some sloppy math, multiplying percentage of proven-crazy-racist teabaggers times teabagger representation in the GOP, you'll come up with a not-very-impressive number somewhere well shy of a million. A lot of Dems identified with the Occupy movement, for that matter, but that doesn't mean they're all clueless bongo-playing twerps.

Would those same people buy into those lies if the candidate/president was a white guy from Virginia?

Well, a similar batch of people believed that Swift Boat rubbish about Kerry. What state was he from, Massachusetts? I assume they believe equally noxious trash about Hillary, Pelosi, and basically every other prominent Dem they've heard of. I know I've heard a fair amount of it, but I try not to let it linger in my neurons.

There's certainly a huge amount of religious hate, but much of it at its core is racial.

And you know this how? Your experience watching American news? I've lived in a rural, conservative part of the U.S. for almost all of the past decade. I've lived in the U.S. for all but ten months of my life. You, by contrast, are a Brit who follows U.S. news. I am rock. You are scissors.

[DinoDoc]

Would those same people buy into those lies if the candidate/president was a white guy from Virginia?

The Clinton Body Count


Probably.

[Elok]

Given all the other absurd crap people believe when they read it in an e-mail forward--and given the shallowness and spitefulness of politics in general--why should the actual traits of the person involved matter?

[kentonio]

Wow, so that's...a quarter of them, more or less. A few of whom, at certain rallies, waved racist signs. Wild guess here: if you do some sloppy math, multiplying percentage of proven-crazy-racist teabaggers times teabagger representation in the GOP, you'll come up with a not-very-impressive number somewhere well shy of a million. A lot of Dems identified with the Occupy movement, for that matter, but that doesn't mean they're all clueless bongo-playing twerps.

You're right, that is a pretty wild guess given that I quoted poll numbers earlier that point at about 9 million people being openly racist towards African Americans.

And you know this how? Your experience watching American news? I've lived in a rural, conservative part of the U.S. for almost all of the past decade. I've lived in the U.S. for all but ten months of my life. You, by contrast, are a Brit who follows U.S. news. I am rock. You are scissors.

Ah we're back on the 'you foreigners wouldn't understand our 'merican ways'. Fair play.

[kentonio]

DP

[Aeson]

Most of the teabaggers I know are pretty decent folk who are really just somewhat confused libertarians (pardon the redundancy) who want immigration reform, don't want Obamacare, and are for ending the drug war (as well as real wars). They also like their guns, and generally live in areas where guns are useful tools still. It's the neocons and fanatic religious right who are the scary wings.

[Aeson]

A lot of Dems identified with the Occupy movement, for that matter, but that doesn't mean they're all clueless bongo-playing twerps.

To be fair to kentonio via analogy, most Dems are bongo-playing twerps, or at least wish they could be that cool.

[giblets]

So what did the bongo-playing twerps in the White House do that was so terrible? If I have it right they claimed the attacks were caused by a film when the attacks were just ordinary islamic terrorism? I don't see how this is worse than Watergate as some seem to be suggesting.

[Elok]

You're right, that is a pretty wild guess given that I quoted poll numbers earlier that point at about 9 million people being openly racist towards African Americans.

Fair enough. Assuming for the sake of argument that the sample was recent, accurate, and representative, that's--what was it?--3%? About the same percentage as are exclusively gay/lesbian. I.E. Not Many.

Ah we're back on the 'you foreigners wouldn't understand our 'merican ways'. Fair play.

Alexis de Tocqueville spent about two years trekking around America. He came out with a number of insightful observations about our way of life. You, by contrast, claim your expertise from watching our news, and give us a nasty, disingenuous inference that every American on here tells you is crap. Okay, except Imran, but all he's saying is that we have problems with race, which I for one do not contest--not that all, or the overwhelming majority, of Obama's critics are secret Klan sympathizers. Shall I watch the BBC for a bit and tell you half of the Tories sniff glue and beat their women?

[Elok]

Also, they were molested as children. By nannies. Nannies with suggestively-shaped crumpets. The glue-sniffing, the wife-beating, the letting people call them a silly name like "Tory"--I've heard a lot of Beatles songs, so I know a thing or two about the psychological makeup of Britons, and clearly the naughty nannies are to blame for all of it.