Christopher Dorner

[regexcellent]

For search and surveillance. It would take an NSDD at least, if not an EO, for a USG owned armed drone to be used on him. Not sure about the legality of police using their own armed drones, but civilian police agencies can't classify their procurement budgets, so if any agency actually had one, it'd be in the media.

(sorry for multipost I didn't bother to multiquote and don't want to edit now)

Okay, as a surveillance target that seems to make more sense. Seeing as he is a wanted man, I don't see a civil liberties issue with tracking him using any means available. If he were just minding his own business and not killing and threatening to kill cops and their families, yeah, tracking him would be at a minimum unseemly.

That said, unless he's out in the middle of the woods or otherwise outside population centers, I'm not sure what good drones will do. Unless they manage to actually find his vehicle on the ground and then track it from the air?

[Krill]

A personality disorder is only "mentally ill" in the broadest sense. Bipolar, schizophrenia, severe depression, etc. are true mental illnesses with a definite (though not fully or clearly understood) neurochemical basis, and there are mental conditions such as CTE, Alzheimers, etc., with clear structural mechanisms that lead to the behavioral changes. Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, Sociopathic Personality Disorder, etc., have more complex sources, but they are not identifiably neurochemical or structural. There is frankly, much more choice involved in the behavior - rather than losing the ability to process or distinguish right and wrong as in true mental illness, those with personality disorders simply don't give a ****, because the universe inevitably revolves around them and their wants and inclinations. Dorner's manifesto and the degree of pre-planning and game playing are indicative of personality disorders, not classic mental illness.

One note: Organic personality disorders do exist, and these often occur (but not always) because of brain damage at various points of life from pre-birth to late age stroke. That said, different cultures do classify personality disorders as mental illnesses (the USA, of course, does not). The reason that some cultures classify them as mental illnesses is because of how they are formed during childhood upbringing, but also that most mental illnesses have a sociological aspect to them.

[Krill]

MtG - I am not his psychologist, I don't know if he's truly mentally ill. But it seems to me like it's pretty likely - and if it isn't by the current definition, then that definition may need reconsideration. His actions look like those of a person who's been broken by circumstance. The difference between an ******* who murders for fun or profit, and even folks like the crazy Norse guy or the kids at Columbine, and a guy like Dorner seem self-evident to me. Something's wrong in his head such that he feels like he has to react like this. I don't think he's a coward, or an evil person. I think he's messed up.

You need to learn the difference between a Psychologist and Psychiatrist.

As Al said, the really important takeaway here - more so than the LAPD being corrupt or anything else - is, why does this happen? What makes a guy snap like this? And, once we figure that out, how can we use that knowledge to prevent this from happening in the future?

Psychiatrists already know the answer to this...

Plato, nobody (at least nobody here) is saying his crimes are or can be justified. His crimes are horrible, and he'll ultimately spend the rest of his life in jail for this assuming he's not killed first, and he should. "Sympathize", again, does not mean agree with; it means understand on an emotional level. I sympathize with my wife wanting to strangle me when I'm being difficult; I don't agree with her.

I'm not trying to say he isn't responsible for his crimes, or that he shouldn't be held accountable; he should go to jail and stay there forever. He's not remotely similar to the mother who drowns her kids in the bathtub because Jesus told her to; that person is crazy in the sense you mean. However, he's not similar to what I think of Bundy or Rader, either (again, not really knowing much about them beyond the basics); they probably have something wrong with them at a fundamental level, that prevents them from having emotional ties to humanity. Dorner doesn't have that; he has a third thing, which is massive stress+depression+no way out=psychotic break.

Attitudes like this are the reason the USA will never have a functioning mental health system within your society.

[PLATO]

unless he's out in the middle of the woods or otherwise outside population centers, I'm not sure what good drones will do. Unless they manage to actually find his vehicle on the ground and then track it from the air?

Facial recognition software? Seems I read something about them using that in Afghan a year or so ago....

[PLATO]

PLATO did, I was conflating the two of you, sorry.

ACK!

The only good about this is that the LAPD will be closely scruitinized. For a department with their record, that is a good thing.

[-Jrabbit]

Why is everyone so accepting of shoot-on-sight vigilante justice? AFAIK Dorner has not been convicted of anything. Makes me wonder what might come to light if he had his day in court.

We all deserve due process. It's supposedly one of the things that sets the US apart.

[regexcellent]

Why is everyone so accepting of shoot-on-sight vigilante justice? AFAIK Dorner has not been convicted of anything. Makes me wonder what might come to light if he had his day in court.

We all deserve due process. It's supposedly one of the things that sets the US apart.

Like I said before, Bonnie and Clyde weren't convicted either.

[-Jrabbit]

Makes a good movie.
Doesn't make it right.

[Aeson]

Um...what does this have to do with police shooting on sight? I'm saying UAV strikes are the same thing.

No. Missiles are not the same as bullets.

[regexcellent]

It's not about what weapons they're using; it's the fact that it's shoot-on-sight.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Why is everyone so accepting of shoot-on-sight vigilante justice? AFAIK Dorner has not been convicted of anything. Makes me wonder what might come to light if he had his day in court.

We all deserve due process. It's supposedly one of the things that sets the US apart.

It's not necessarily acceptance of vigilante justice. It's accepting the likelihood that Dorner is a tad less likely to be taken into custody without resistance that your average drunk driver. Given his training, his rants, his known possession of firearms, etc., he's not gonna get any extra "pretty please with a cherry on top" points to be compliant if apprehended.

[Aeson]

It's not about what weapons they're using; it's the fact that it's shoot-on-sight.

Yes it is about the weapons they are using, because there are dramatically different risks involved. Hit a criminal with a slug from your sidearm, and that slug isn't likely to cause any collateral damage. Hit a criminal with a missile armed with high explosives, and you can still take out the family across the street. (Miss, or choose the wrong target, and you take out the whole wedding.)

By your reasoning, there would be no difference between shooting a criminal with a nerf gun or nuke ... because the weapon used isn't relevant to whether or not shooting at criminals is a good idea.

It's perfectly reasonable to not want law enforcement flying drones around in the US firing missiles at people.

[Docfeelgood]

Pretty much the only means of self-harm is banging your head against concrete, and they have cameras to monitor that. More like insanity than serious depression. Plus the hour a day outside the cell isn't mandatory - they can take that away from you for any infractions, so unless you want to be a vegetable and sleep all the time, they have pretty tremendous control over you.

Some of those prison shows I have seen said the prisoners are not allowed to be in the bed during waking hours.
Talk about harsh.

[The Mad Monk]

[Hauldren Collider]