Who is this "Martin Luther King" and why does he have his day off today?

[kentonio]

After WW2, there were also quite a few lynchings and lesser harassment of returning black soldiers who'd been promoted - it was one thing to be a private, but stripes on a ******, wearing a yankee army uniform? Nosiree. They were also some of the last to come back, because of the point system for returning troops, so that exacerbated things. I forget the specific of what town, but there was a case that got Pres. Truman's attention, where a black sergeant came back from Italy, where he'd gotten (IIRC) the silver star, and shortly after getting back into his hometown, a mob tore the stripes and decorations off his uniform and put his eyes out.

I wanted to know more about this so I did a little digging. The man was Sgt. Isaac Woodard, recipient of the Battle Star. He returned to the US and commited the terrible crime of arguing with a bus driver over the use of a restroom. For this he was arrested for disorderly conduct, beaten and then Chief of Police Linwood Shull repeatedly rammed a billy club into his eyes until his eyes were ruptured. He was brought before a judge the next morning and fined $50. It was two days before he received any medical attention.

Truman was apparently furious when he heard there had been no charges against the attacker and pushed for a federal case. Here's how that went..

By all accounts, the trial was a travesty. The local U.S. Attorney charged with handling the case failed to interview anyone except the bus driver, a decision that Waring, a civil rights proponent, believed was a gross dereliction of duty. Waring would later write of his disgust of the way the case was handled at the local level, commenting, "I was shocked by the hypocrisy of my government...in submitting that disgraceful case...."

The behavior of the defense was no better. When the defense attorney began to shout racial epithets at Woodard, Waring had it stopped immediately. During the trial, the defense attorney also stated to the jury that "if you rule against Shull, then let this South Carolina secede again." After Woodard gave his account of the events, Shull firmly denied it, claiming that Woodard had threatened him with a gun, and that Shull had used his nightclub to defend himself. During this testimony, Shull admitted that he repeatedly struck Woodard in the eyes.

On November 5, after thirty minutes of deliberation, Shull was found not guilty on all charges despite his admission that he had blinded Woodard. The courtroom broke into applause upon hearing the verdict. The failure to convict Shull was perceived as a political failure on the part of the Truman administration. Shull died in Batesburg, South Carolina on December 27, 1997 at the age of 95.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Woodard

[Lonestar]

Martian Luthor Kang Day

[Ben Kenobi]

Disability is a wide spectrum of things, and treated very differently in different schools and districts. In the early '70s, I went to school with both blind and deaf kids (not the same kids with both, but kids with one or the other) in regular classrooms. In Washington state and central California. The blind kid had his textbooks in braille, and he showed us how it worked. The deaf kids taught some of us to sign a bit, and our teachers knew how to sign. A kid with Down's is another story, but then again, so is a gifted kid. Then there's a million other specific disabilities with different issues.

Maybe in California, but certainly not in hicksville Canada by then. Back when I first went to school, it was unheard of. I was actually assigned to special education until my mother managed to convince the school in the neighbourhood to give it a shot. If it didn't work I was back. I stuck it for 12 years, so that should tell you how it went.

The other problem, at least for me - is that I'm 100 percent verbal. Even my own 'community' rejected that approach arguing I should learn sign because 'that was what was made for me'. The result? Well, I did ok - but I can't say I got much support from either side. I was a freak to both - with the folks who hear not really knowing what to do with me (since they had no one else to work with), and the community of deaf people that did operate pretty much shunning me and my family the whole way.

And you had opportunities to beat the system.

I was fortunate. Most aren't, and the system is not set up for it. That's a problem. Nothing wrong with my head just takes a bit to teach me how to get it out. That's a lot of unused talent going to waste.

It's not the same as having a system that is designed to hold you down.

The system as designed is set up to hold deaf students down. Remember 'separate but unequal' doesn't apply to us. Separate schools, separate curriculum is perfectly ok, and to the detriment of students with disabilities in general and deaf students in particular.

Buck v Bell applied non-uniformly to a few tens of thousands of people for a relatively short time. And fairly "random" people, as "mentally unfit" wasn't something you and your entire community were born into. Jim Crow and such applied for generations as official policy (and similar de facto practices elsewhere) to tens of millions of people.

I'm sorry, I don't think that excuses Buck vs Bell. Arguing "it was overturned", so was Jim Crow, eventually. At the time it was 8 justices to 1. Settled opinion on sociobiology argued that this was doing society a favor by removing disabled people altogether. Change disabled people to black people, and you'd see the policy was far more wideranging. .Also recall back then it was understood that someone who was hard of hearing was considered mentally unfit. (because we can't communicate well).

I won't show the worse images. According to one account I read, when they first lowered him into the flames, he tried to climb up the chain hand over hand in a desperate attempt to get away. So they brought him down, cut off his fingers (he'd already been castrated, there's your forced sterilization for you), then ran him back up the tree and systematically lowered him into the fire and pulled him back up, for a couple of hours. The whole event was so shocking and socially unacceptable that thousands of people attended, including the mayor, the sheriff and sheriff's deputies, and school children.

That's ok. I'm a big boy. You won't offend my delicate sensibilities.

Anyone ever arrest you for trying to enter? Lack of proper facilities is one thing. A legal authority to say "we don't let your kind rent rooms here" applied to tens of millions of people is another. Or "you can eat back in the kitchen with the help" (if you got that at all).

Have been denied employment and rentals before, yes. I've been arrested once too. I've been illegally evicted, at least five times (depending on how you count it). I've been charged with destruction of property by one homeowner after a break in - and after I filed the police report documenting the breakin. Was dismissed for lack of evidence (seriously, why would I call 9-11 on myself?)

Remember ol' Shep? In the early 70s (about 1973, it was after Heart of Atlanta Motel, but not much after), my dad and ol' Shep had to make a 100 mile commute each way to a job site, because that was the distance to the closest town that had a hotel that would rent a room to a "******." They couldn't even EAT DINNER in the ****ing jobsite town (in Nebraska) because it had a reputation as a "sundown town" and both my dad and Shep, being southern boys, didn't want to chance seeing how well deserved that reputation was.

Can't say I have experience that. Have had car windows smashed though. Had a laptop stolen at my dorm by a, how shall we put it, less than 'enlightened individual' who took advantage of my inability to hear. It adds up over time, and frankly, it gets wearisome. I've been assaulted once in public by a drunk. I've had a motel room trashed.

Gosh, looking back at it, I've been through quite a bit!

[Ben Kenobi]

But, you were in school with "normal" kids, right? Or did you have to go to a "special" school out in the county, or a run down part of town, with nothing near the facilities that the "normal kid" schools had? If you were walking down a road, did you think much that total strangers might throw rocks or bottles at you, or stop and beat the **** out of you.

Check at least in the beginning yes. Check, and check. After the biggest bully in my particular school went down I didn't have much trouble after that.

Either because you were walking down the wrong road, or because some of the older "normal kids" decided to go to your part of town (remember, your family is not allowed to live near them, you have your own neighborhood) for a little "fun?" And God forbid, if you fight back or retaliate, you or someone like you could very likely die, and the law (if it wasn't directly involved in the killing) would harass you and protect the perpetrators?

Thankfully no weapons. But I did get jumped. High school, I mostly kept with friends or teachers, so I wasn't ever caught 'on my own'. You learn a few things growing up...

Were your parents told (or more subtly schooled) what neighborhoods they could live in?

Yes.

What jobs they could work?

Also yes.

Did you have to address everyone "normal" differently or risk a beating?

I had a friend and his family who was older than me - they looked out for me growing up - so I didn't have to worry too much about that.

Or if someone thought you looked at a "normal girl" the wrong way, or God forbid, she looked at you the wrong way?

Been threatened that actually - but they didn't act on it.

Or kicked out of school/lost your job over it?

I had a teacher try to sabotage my college applications and my transfer papers to a better school in grade 10. That was fun. Eventually it got fixed, but it took years.

Were your parents denied access to vote, to the legal system (unless it was being used against them), to all the normal institutions of society that "normal" people had, and you just grew up with "that's the way it's always been?"

No, and as far as I can see, that's the only major difference. Never had any issues voting.

When you were at a park as a kid (if you were even allowed in), did you ever have to pee your pants and get laughed at because you had to bypass the bathroom near you, because "your kind" wasn't allowed there, and you had to go to the bathroom across the park?

Told that - didn't listen, got in a few fights that way. Won them too.

Did you ever have a really hot summer day where you wanted to swim, but you had to go to a muddy ass river running with filth because the nice clean public swimming pool in the park in town had a sign that said "normal only?" And was it not just you, but millions of people, and it had been this way for generations, with the full force of law and the endorsement of "proper society?" And if you spoke up that it was wrong, you ran the very real risk of being killed?

Was kicked out by one swim instructor because they didn't understand what my hearing AIDS were. Thought it was the other infectious disease That. Was interesting. I had a college professor do the same, refuse to teach me because he believed I was incapable of learning. Uh, let's see. Had another one do the same and quietly suggested I transfer to a different class 'where I might have more success'. Was denied assistance because I was 'not disabled enough'. Threatened to file suit - they refused to pay, so I ended up paying my own notetakers, despite the fact that it was explicitly set up for it.

Currently not receiving disability which I am entitled to by the Canadian government by the law due to the fact that they consider me 'employable'.

[kentonio]

Ben no matter how hard you try, you're never going to convinve the world that being deaf makes you as badly treated as black Americans pre-civil rights. Chiefly because it's completely ridiculous and not a little offensive.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Presidents Day, nimrod

Call me an old fogie but I remember when we used to celebrate Washington's and Lincoln's B-days instead of the joint B-day. Good times.

[rah]

Ben no matter how hard you try, you're never going to convinve the world that being deaf makes you as badly treated as black Americans pre-civil rights. Chiefly because it's completely ridiculous and not a little offensive.

Quite offensive. I can remember being arrested in Texas (and being denied rentals) because by hair was too long . Or beat up many times growing up because I was a geek. But there is no way I going to compare that with being black. (or deaf for that matter because I didn't experience it) Missing a field trip is the equivalent to the black experience.

[Hauldren Collider]

When my father lived in Alabama (this was before I was born), he lived in Birmingham. This was the 1980s, and by that time, open racism was no longer okay there. But this wasn't true everywhere in the state. One of his clients was a small bank near (but not inside) Montgomery. He recalls having a conversation with the president of the company where they were discussing how much in yearly benefits the employees would need post-retirement. The president said "The black men won't need as much as the white men because they don't support their kids or get married".

Dad paused for a minute, unsure of what to say, and eventually decided on simply stating the fact that it would be illegal.

[Kidlicious]

Dr. King directly attacked white people for sitting on the sidelines. Why? Because he knew he needed them to accomplish his goals. It's called 'historical primary evidence' gribbler. Which I believe is what I am called to teach.

No, no. What he did was encourage us not to be racist and to have courage to stand up for what's right. That's why white people love him. He's probably the greatest american ever, and his color has nothing to do with it.

And I can't believe your troll has gone on this long.

[Kidlicious]

I would have liked to have seen Obama invite people to come forward and accept him as their personal saviour, some probably would

Unfortunately this is true. Too many people either hate him or worship him like atleast a prophet.

[Kidlicious]

I think I know a thing or too about exclusion, and about integration and how controversial that idea was at the time. Old enough to know that, seen it firsthand.

I think I know what it's like to be told to sit in the back of the bus - to get stared at by classmates who look at you as if you're the space alien from Mars.

Dr. King had a vision, you might want to ask what a little boy with big glasses and hearing aids has to think the first time he hears, "that speech", and knows that there's someone else out there who understands.

Too bad you're the worst representative of deaf people they could possibly have. I'm sure they regret that you speak in a public forum for their case.

[giblets]

When my father lived in Alabama (this was before I was born), he lived in Birmingham. This was the 1980s, and by that time, open racism was no longer okay there. But this wasn't true everywhere in the state. One of his clients was a small bank near (but not inside) Montgomery. He recalls having a conversation with the president of the company where they were discussing how much in yearly benefits the employees would need post-retirement. The president said "The black men won't need as much as the white men because they don't support their kids or get married".

Dad paused for a minute, unsure of what to say, and eventually decided on simply stating the fact that it would be illegal.

I guess those freedom-destroying laws have their merits.

[giblets]

ITT Ben is rejected by all but can't grasp the concept that it might not have anything to do with his disability or political leanings. I'm 99% sure the teacher who wouldn't bring him on a trip to Europe just didn't like him and only used his disability as an excuse to get rid of him.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Check at least in the beginning yes. Check, and check. After the biggest bully in my particular school went down I didn't have much trouble after that.

Bingo. If you were a ****** and fought back, they'd escalate. The only question would be how many of 'em, what they'd use (pick handles, tire irons, chains, guns), and how long it would last and whether it was fatal or not. And the law wouldn't do anything for you, before, during or after.

Thankfully no weapons. But I did get jumped. High school, I mostly kept with friends or teachers, so I wasn't ever caught 'on my own'. You learn a few things growing up...

And you're talking about some ignorant wretch individuals, not that plus a whole legal and political system that not only supported but encouraged that. If you were a colored boy down home, "friends" wouldn't help you, because if you fought back, chances are they could call down a world of hurt on you, or another of your kind. You were just schooled to run, or take it if you got caught.

Yes.

And what was the basis for that? Also, what force of law?

I had a friend and his family who was older than me - they looked out for me growing up - so I didn't have to worry too much about that.

Ask Emmitt Till how much good family did him? Of course, you'd have to dig him up, again.

Been threatened that actually - but they didn't act on it.

You would have learned not to do that. Any deaf kids in your area beaten or castrated for looking at a "normal" girl the wrong way? Hanged if he'd even touched her, consensual or not? Scottsboro boys ring a bell?

I had a teacher try to sabotage my college applications and my transfer papers to a better school in grade 10. That was fun. Eventually it got fixed, but it took years.

So you had a venal individual breaking the rules or misusing them. Not a whole society enforcing them. The way it got fixed for coloreds was to move north, even though they had no money, skills, etc. One reason for the northern urban ghettos, going way back to the war between the states.

No, and as far as I can see, that's the only major difference. Never had any issues voting.

There are lots of major differences, you just don't see them.

Told that - didn't listen, got in a few fights that way. Won them too.

You didn't do that down home. They'd as likely burn your parents out of their house (or just pick some random ******s to send a message), after they (if you were lucky), beat you to within an inch of your life, or (if you were unlucky) killed you. Because it wasn't about a little kid peeing his pants. It was about millions of his kind gettin' ideas, or gettin' uppity, and why then, the very fabric of society would unravel. Defiance was simply not an option, until way late in the era and after the feds and the outside agitatin' jews and yankee ******-lovin' press was willing to get into it. Before that, nobody looked.

Was kicked out by one swim instructor because they didn't understand what my hearing AIDS were. Thought it was the other infectious disease That. Was interesting. I had a college professor do the same, refuse to teach me because he believed I was incapable of learning. Uh, let's see. Had another one do the same and quietly suggested I transfer to a different class 'where I might have more success'. Was denied assistance because I was 'not disabled enough'. Threatened to file suit - they refused to pay, so I ended up paying my own notetakers, despite the fact that it was explicitly set up for it.

Again, you have a lot of ignorant individuals and bureaucratic cluelessness. Not institutions of government and society set to steamroll you if you so much looked around, let alone rocked, the boat. How many deaf or otherwise disabled people lynched in Canada? Do you have Alberta wind chimes?

[MichaeltheGreat]

You have no comparison. Plus, you're an awful human being who should do the world a favor and end yourself somehow.

Do you think that comment really reflects well on you, either? It's one thing to not like someone. It's not like Ben is some third world dictator running his own gulag.