Hey Slowwy! You should be proud of your daughter!

[kentonio]

I'm still puzzling over how the OT was construed as cheerleading of killing. Ben was pretty explicit in that he was congratulating an otherwise victim from having the appropriate training and willpower to defend herself. That others attempted to read it as an advocation of killing simply illuminates how hate inspired those individuals are, particularly when it comes to all things Ben.

You think the appropriate reaction to someone getting shot to death is to go celebrate the shooter on being prepared? Do you think it's likely that would even make her feel any better about what she'd just felt she had to do? Someone died, and she will now spend her entire life knowing she killed. That's something that calls for compassion and understanding not high fives and back slapping.

[MRT144]

So you're telling me that if God told you to kill someone you wouldn't do it?

I'd be checking myself in to a mental institution.

[DinoDoc]

That's beautiful, shame you didn't bother reading your own link fully.

I did. Did you?

For example, two of the most eminent commentators of the time, Rabbi Samuel ben Meir (Rashbam) and Rabbi Joseph Bekhor-Shor, felt the need to go on at uncharacteristic length in order to explain that the Hebrew text refers only to unlawful killing. Both these scholars pointed out plainly the differences between the Hebrew roots for killing and murdering (for good measure, Bekhor Shor even provides a French translation of the latter term: meurtre), and brought ample evidence of the Torah's condoning other types of killing.

[The Mad Monk]

Was there an adequate legal mechanism for defending her in this instance?

I'm sure you're feeling all super awesome because you're repeating an extremely obvious point (With quotes too, go you!) that vigilante is commonly used in the sense of a post-crime retribution taking place outside the law. I should have expected that Poly was a poor place for nuance.

Not "commonly". Possibly not even "mostly", as I am tending towards "always". It's your definition that's at issue here, and I would like to see some examples from news or literature, please.

Ooohhhh, let's!! You can post some dictionary definitions that you cherry pick to refer specifically to executions carried out by the state, and then you can feel all glowy and special while I beat my head repeatedly against my desk in frustration.

We would, but you're clearly still having issues with the first term. Baby steps.

[MikeH]

Have we run out of people who disagree on an issue now? The people who agree have to argue about it?

[The Mad Monk]

We are clearly disagreeing on the meaning of Vigilante.

For a start.

[kentonio]

I did. Did you?

Ah, so you read the first bit, thought 'cool! that TOTALLY helps me win at internet!' and failed to spot the bit further down that completely undermined your point. Go team!

Not "commonly". Possibly not even "mostly", as I am tending towards "always". It's your definition that's at issue here, and I would like to see some examples from news or literature, please.

Or alternatively you could use a little common sense, and see that a person that owns and trains with a gun for purposes of self defense is implicitly taking a vigilante mindset.

We would, but you're clearly still having issues with the first term. Baby steps.

Yeah, I wouldn't touch that one either, your hit rate so far has been pretty poor.

[The Mad Monk]

So when you learn how to throw a punch from your Dad for purposes of self defense you're taking a vigilante mindset?

[MikeH]

There is just a cultural difference here.

In the UK someone who owns and trains with a gun for self defence would be seen as abnormal, and it does have negative connotations. The idea they are taking a vigilante mindset (with the associated negative connotations) makes more sense.

In much of the US it's seen (and is) much more normal so that really doesn't make sense.

Either way as kentonio said he regrets his choice of words I'm not sure why you are all still going on about it.

[kentonio]

X-Mike'd

So when you learn how to throw a punch from your Dad for purposes of self defense you're taking a vigilante mindset?

Of course, you're learning to defend yourself because you lack faith in society to adequately protect you. Which is generally wise.

[The Mad Monk]

Mike, your witness.

[The Mad Monk]

I still look forward to your examples, BTW.

Now, what is the difference between extra-legal and illegal?

[giblets]

There is just a cultural difference here.

In the UK someone who owns and trains with a gun for self defence would be seen as abnormal, and it does have negative connotations. The idea they are taking a vigilante mindset (with the associated negative connotations) makes more sense.

In much of the US it's seen (and is) much more normal so that really doesn't make sense.

Either way as kentonio said he regrets his choice of words I'm not sure why you are all still going on about it.

What do British people do if someone breaks into their home?

[MikeH]

Make a noise and the terrified junkie will run off?

Don't forget it is exceptionally unlikely an intruder here will be armed. Unless you are actually a gangster being targeted by a rival gang.

[kentonio]

What do British people do if someone breaks into their home?

As Mike said, criminals here don't usually have guns. People here would normally respond with sticks/knives etc if they were in that situation. Probably less safe for the homeowner but also far less likely to result in accidentally killing your kids sneaking home late.

Now, what is the difference between extra-legal and illegal?

Extra-judicial.

ex·tra·ju·di·cial (kstr-j-dshl)
adj.
1. Outside of the authority of a court.
2. Outside of the usual judicial proceedings.

That isn't the same as illegal, as in this case the woman wasn't actually breaking any laws, yet by killing the intruder that person was not judged by the normal processes of the justice system.