THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN!!!

[MrFun]

I've met the man and I assure you that is not the case.

What other word would you use, for someone who paints the historical Confederacy of the American Civil War in a positive light, to the extent of distorting historical facts and evidence?

[Dinner]

Oerdin thinks the north has more industry. Proof that HC is right.

You, sir, are a drooling idiot. Not only does the north have more industry but they have VASTLY more industry. We shall ignore the total economic numbers, all of which show the north and west have economies HUGELY larger than the south, but let us look at total value of manufacturing output as well as total direct employment in manufacturing. Shall we? OK, hold my hand, little child, while I walk you through the numbers...

California manufacturing output $229.2 billion, total employment ~1.3 million
Texas (same) $192b, 820k
Mississippi $15.1b, 133k
Alabama $25b, 230k
Georgia $47b, 350k
South Carolina $26.4b, 216k
Ohio $80b, 638k
Indiana $74.2, 464k
Illinois $86.6, 574k
Michigan $70b, 506k
Wisconsin $50.1, 443k

http://www.nam.org/Statistics-And-Data/State-Manufacturing-Data/Manufacturing-by-State.aspx

EVERY Northern state has more manufacturing than most southern states. Texas is the best of the south but even that state is 1.3rd lower than California. Your problem is you live in the right wing bubble and are stupid enough to believe their bull****. The base in the north is so much higher than the south that even though the south, starting from a tiny base, has higher growth rates they're still not catching up in absolute terms. If I have $1 and I get another than that is a 100% increase (wow, look at that growth rate!) but if I have $100 and get one more it's only a 1% increase. This is why Illinois can grow at 2% and Alabama can grow at 5% but in absolute terms Illinois got even FURTHER ahead of Alabama.

Always look at the absolute terms instead of percentages because partisan liars love to use percentages to fool ignorant dumb asses, like yourself, because you don't stop to wonder what the real numbers are.

[Dinner]

But, but, but... The north... Unions... How?! How can they still have so much more? Simple, the problem here isn't the workers and, yes, educated northern workers really are more productive than southern workers so despite their lower wages they're still not all that great of a deal. It turns out skilled workers are still worth more if their productivity is high enough not to mention infrastructure is still way superior in the north because southern voters don't want to spend the tax money to build more efficient infrastructure. This all adds up to a difference and tax cuts only get you so far before industry needs those other things.

[regexcellent]

Oerdin,

#1 I was making fun of you, not laying out a serious position
#2 Nobody is about to deny that industry is in decline throughout the north
#3 You still ****ing fail because different states have different sized populations, numbnuts. Texas has a lot of industry BECAUSE IT IS BIG! Same with California.

[Dinner]

How about we take a specific sector where southerners have recently been bragging about how good they've been doing, automobile manufacturing.

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/stateautoworkers/

You'll notice 7 out of the top 10 states by total employment in auto manufacturing are union states and only three are southern states. The total employment in auto manufacturing in the rust belt and even states like California are VASTLY larger in the north than in the south. Reality has just hit you across the face, Reg.

[Dinner]

#2 Nobody is about to deny that industry is in decline throughout the north

I do. In fact, most people in the know do. Sure, total employment is going down (blame higher efficiency and automation) but the total value of output just keeps going up and up and up.

#3 You still ****ing fail because different states have different sized populations, numbnuts. Texas has a lot of industry BECAUSE IT IS BIG! Same with California. Is it oh so shocking that a state like Mississippi or West Virginia goes under the radar, when they have small populations?

We were talking about who has more industry so that's an absolute number not a relative number. Thus comparing total manufacturing output is indeed the right metric to use.

[regexcellent]

You ignored states in the south with high per capita industry in that list, like North Carolina, which has $86.6 billion in industry. Or Tennessee, with $40 billion. ****ING NEW YORK has only $67 billion.

[Dinner]

I will give you that several southern states have more of their total employment in manufacturing and more as a percentage of total GDP in manufacturing but that just shows how under developed they really are. Well developed economies tend to be highly diversified so no one sector totally dominates the economy. That's actually a good thing and makes the total economy stronger as a down turn in just one sector impacts the total economy less.

[Dinner]

You ignored states in the south with high per capita industry in that list, like North Carolina, which has $86.6 billion in industry. Or Tennessee, with $40 billion. ****ING NEW YORK has only $67 billion.

OK, I see your North Carolina and your Tennessee and add in New York $67 (they've never been a major manufacturing state with trade and finance being their big thing), Pennsylvania ($71), and Minnesota ($40). You're not going to win, dude.

If you like we can debate over who gets Kentucky but it is hardly worth it at $27.

[regexcellent]

I will give you that several southern states have more of their total employment in manufacturing and more as a percentage of total GDP in manufacturing but that just shows how under developed they really are. Well developed economies tend to be highly diversified so no one sector totally dominates the economy.

This is just trying to have your cake and eat it.

Every single state has a major service sector economy. Agriculture makes up a large portion of the economy in many states. In the gulf coast area oil extraction is also very big. The point with respect to industry is just that new factories aren't being opened in the North. The job creation just isn't there, when it's so much less risky to open a factory in a place like North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and South Carolina, because they are right-to-work states with much lower taxes. And you still have all of the advantages of domestic production: easier to get government contracts, the quality of the labor force, efficient legal system (by world standards), lack of corruption, and so forth.

Why do you think Boeing is moving manufacturing to Charleston, S.C.? The reason is simple: work stoppages are much less likely there than in Washington State.

e: BTW New York has had tons of manufacturing in the past. You are completely wrong about the economy being mainly finance and such. Have you even heard of Buffalo? The entire city was pretty much a steel mill. Rochester boomed because the Genessee river's flow over the Niagara Escarpment provides easy hydropower to operate factories. Binghampton is home to IBM.

[Pax]

the idea of secession is a stupid one. 1. Outside competition in the form of china, europe and etc make the idea of "going it alone" foolish. 2. In every state at least 40 % of the pop voted for Obama, so you would have a minimum 40 % of the pop of every state wanting to stay in the union. That's assuming that every one that voted for Romney was foolish enough to want to secede from the union. 3. When you join the U.S. its for better or worse, through good times and bad. That's what makes us strong we work through the bad times together pulling each other along the way with our different views and backgrounds. It imagine what would have happened if half the U.S. seceded from the U.S. at pearl harbor because the japanese were only a threat to the west coast or on 9/11 because all of the targets hit were on the east coast.

[Dr Strangelove]

IIRC all the Army's and Air Force's mothballed equipment is sitting in a desert in Texas.

[Patti]

This map works for me. Maybe the cold will cool the jets of hateful libs. Wont be so much fun for them tho, when obama raises their utility rates.

[Ben Kenobi]

Regexcellence - I have to say that while the south has advanced leaps and bounds in the last 30 years, it's not going to overcome 230 years of institutional advantages in that short period. If you were to take the South's governance and drop it in California today - California would still be wealthier and better off. However, the gap is closing.

[molly bloom]

Mr. Fun, the man served America. You should be more respectful.

Don't be so sanctimonious. Oh wait, that would involve you undergoing a prefrontal lobotomy.