Intrade: 70.5% chance Obama will win third debate

[giblets]

More right than wrong. Ben's fleeing proves that.

What is Ben going to do when Hispanics in Texas start voting in force and Texas is no longer a Republican stronghold?

[Ben Kenobi]

What is Ben going to do when Hispanics in Texas start voting in force and Texas is no longer a Republican stronghold?

Marry one and have kids?

[MRT144]

Are ships as obsolete as bayonets and horses?

Romney came across as perfectly presidential and credible. I think he did fine. Obama had a bunch of lame attacks that didn't really stick, and some sarcasm. It's hard to believe this guy is president.

Troll harder HC.

[giblets]

Ann Coulter calling Obama a ******. Class act.

[Asher]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/23/opinion/the-final-presidential-debate.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

The Final Debate

Mitt Romney has nothing really coherent or substantive to say about domestic policy, but at least he can sound energetic and confident about it. On foreign policy, the subject of Monday night’s final presidential debate, he had little coherent to say and often sounded completely lost. That’s because he has no original ideas of substance on most world issues, including Syria, Iran and Afghanistan.

During the debate, on issue after issue, Mr. Romney sounded as if he had read the boldfaced headings in a briefing book — or a freshman global history textbook — and had not gone much further than that. Twice during the first half-hour, he mentioned that Al Qaeda-affiliated groups were active in northern Mali. Was that in the morning’s briefing book?

At other times, he announced that he had a “strategy” for the Middle East, particularly Iran and Syria, and really for the whole world, but gave no clue what it would be — much like his claim that he has a plan to create 12 million jobs and balance the budget while also cutting taxes, but will not say what it is. At his worst, Mr. Romney sounded like a beauty pageant contestant groping for an answer to the final question. “We want a peaceful planet,” he said. “We want people to be able to enjoy their lives and know they’re going to have a bright and prosperous future and not be at war.”

He added that the United States “didn’t ask for” the mantle of global leadership but was willing to wear it. We wondered what Ronald Reagan would have thought of that.

Mr. Romney’s problem is that he does not actually have any real ideas on foreign policy beyond what President Obama has already done, or plans to do. He supports the planned withdrawal from Afghanistan — and was quick to insist on Monday night that he would pull out by 2014. He thinks there should be economic sanctions on Iran, and he thinks the United States should be encouraging Syrian opposition forces that seem moderate. Mr. Romney said he would work with Saudi Arabia and Qatar on this, but those governments are funneling arms to the jihadist groups that he says he abhors.

The president kept up the attack at virtually every opportunity, showing no sign of the oddly disconnected Barack Obama who lost the first debate. When Mr. Romney called for spending more money on the military than the United States can afford or the military wants, Mr. Obama moved in: “You mentioned the Navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets.” Mr. Romney tried to revive the Republican claim that Mr. Obama conducted an “apology tour” at the start of his presidency, which Mr. Obama correctly called “the biggest whopper” of a campaign that has been filled with them. And he took a dig at Mr. Romney’s recent world travels. “When I went to Israel as a candidate,” he said, “I didn’t take donors, I didn’t attend fund-raisers.”

Mr. Romney tried to say that the president had “wasted” the last four years in trying to stop Iran’s nuclear weapons program. But Mr. Obama said, “We’ve been able to mobilize the world. When I came into office, the world was divided. Iran was resurgent. Iran is at its weakest point, economically, strategically, militarily.”

Mr. Romney tried to set himself apart from Mr. Obama on Iran, but ended up sounding particularly incoherent. At one point he said he would indict President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on genocide charges. He gave no clue how he would do that; like many of his comments, it was merely a sound bite.

Mr. Obama hit Mr. Romney hard on his ever-shifting positions on world affairs, including comments he made in 2008 disparaging the idea that killing Osama bin Laden should be a priority. “You said we should ask Pakistan for permission,” Mr. Obama said. “If we had asked Pakistan for permission, we would not have gotten it.”

Mr. Romney’s closing statement summed it all up. He said almost nothing about foreign policy. He moved back to his comfort zone: cheerfully delivered disinformation about domestic policy.

[Asher]

Stupid ****ing dp

[Lonestar]

I positively cringed at "bayonets and horses" comment, and I'm cringing that there are a lot of people who think that this was a snappy retort.


You don't compare current assets to past assets. You get to where you need to be by looking at our current assets, current requirements, foreign current assets and also projected assets, projected requirements, and projected foreign assets.


Saying that "The USS Stennis in 2012 is far more powerful than the USS Texas circa 1917" is meaningless.

[giblets]

Isn't saying we had more ships in 1917 also pretty meaningless? I think that was the point.

[Asher]

Isn't saying we had more ships in 1917 also pretty meaningless? I think that was the point.

Yes.

[Lonestar]

Isn't saying we had more ships in 1917 also pretty meaningless? I think that was the point.

Well, it's a good starting point.


The problem is that our security requirements haven't change much in the past 20 years, but the assets we have have dwindled. You can have the best destroyers in the world but that won't mean diddly if they aren't where you need them.

Heck, Obama mentioned carriers. Carriers today deploy with 50ish airframes on carriers designed for 90+. They deploy with 3 escorts, one of them a slow thin skinned frigate that doesn't have air defense to speak of. Individually, the AEGIS ships are more powerful than the escorts from, say, the Reagan administration, but it's questionable if two AAW vessels provide enough protection against modern threats. Not everyone is going to be like Iraq and patiently wait for 80% of the navy to gather off the coast before the shooting starts.

Ship consturction is down. The Chinese comissioned 5 major surface combatants last year, the USN comissioned one(a Burke). So, the navy of a country that is clashing with the Phillippines and whose people rioted over not going to war with Japan over uninhabited rocks is increasing it's end strength with units that are individuallly much more potent then what was churned out even 15 years ago. And they are doing it from specialized parts of civilian yards. All naval construction in the US is done at yards that only build naval ships, so it's questionable if we could ramp up in a emergency.

[Zevico]

“Governor Romney, I’m glad that you recognize that Al Qaida is a threat, because a few months ago when you were asked what’s the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said Russia, not Al Qaida; you said Russia, in the 1980s, they’re now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years,” Obama said.

This is wrong. The Soviet Union and the Cold War are over but Russia remains a state sponsor of terrorism and terrorist countries worldwide. It continues to see the United States as an enemy

[88wwmm]

Who knows.

[Zevico]

Marry one and have kids?

Subvert the dominant paradigm, man!

[Jon Miller]

More right than wrong. Ben's fleeing proves that.

The question is why doesn't every Canadian have a Canadian superiority complex.

JM

[MikeH]

How about the Falklands war, moron? The Royal Navy almost got its ass kicked by a nothing country with cruise missiles. If a couple more exocets had hit it would have been game over.

Or if we'd had a single super carrier.