Should the South secede?

[Ben Kenobi]

Before everyone jumps on Ben, he's said something partially correct for a change. In the South there are a lot of black people but up north, including in Rochester (perhaps especially in Rochester), it's all wonderbread white. Minnesota is almost entirely white. The lack of racial interaction breeds racism, I think.

I would look at the major cities first and foremost. Look at where all the violence is coming from - Chicago, New York, etc. Anywhere in the North where there are a significant number of minorities there are huge problems. That's not really the case here. There is that real sense of bitterness - it feels like a war in the north between two camps that have very little in common and don't like each other.

Here? My parish church is more than half minority. Everybody pretty much gets along. I enjoy it tremendously.

[kentonio]

Obama's the most liberal president in recent memory, and a lot of his policies run counter to southern interests. There are a lot of reasons to dislike him.

Seriously? Why is Obama liberal? He hasn't pushed gun control, he has brought in healthcare reform but Dems have been trying to push that for decades, he's pushed for gay marriage but thats more a reflection of society as a whole turning in that direction. What exactly makes him such a liberal to you?

Virginia's special because of its massive military population, more than any other state I believe. Virginia is pretty much the military headquarters of the whole country, what with having the largest navy base, the largest marine corps base, the largest air force base, a number of army bases, plus the Pentagon.

Doesn't it go deeper than that with Virginia though? Wasn't there quite a bit of internal conflict in Virginia over their loyaltys when the civil war broke out?

[Hauldren Collider]

By the way, anyone who says racism isn't a problem anymore in the south is fooling themselves. It's still a problem everywhere, and any honest person will admit that. But it's definitely not restricted to the south, and the south has improved incredible amounts since the days of Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Hauldren Collider]

Doesn't it go deeper than that with Virginia though? Wasn't there quite a bit of internal conflict in Virginia over their loyaltys when the civil war broke out?

Yes, the result of this is called "West Virginia".

Ironically, few would argue I think with the fact that West Virginia is more racist against Blacks than Virginia.

[kentonio]

You have a lot of northerners talking that way too. It's a Republican-Democrat divide, and democrats can be found in the south. They're just more conservative.

Blue dog democrats?

First, Virginia hasn't always been wealthy. It was savaged by the Civil War and took a while to recover. Second, it's special because of its link to Washington, DC and also Norfolk Naval Base. These federal facilities result in a lot of transients. Both areas have a lot of Northern transplants.

Ah fair play, I was thinking pre-civil war.

[Ben Kenobi]

By the way, anyone who says racism isn't a problem anymore in the south is fooling themselves. It's still a problem everywhere, and any honest person will admit that. But it's definitely not restricted to the south, and the south has improved incredible amounts since the days of Martin Luther King, Jr.

You're in probably the worst spot for it, if you're seeing DC. DC isn't representative of the South- it's got much more in common with Philly, NYC, etc.

[regexcellent]

Doesn't it go deeper than that with Virginia though? Wasn't there quite a bit of internal conflict in Virginia over their loyaltys when the civil war broke out?

You should consider the fact that the military is one of the few places where you routinely see black people telling white people what to do. The military has eliminated racism probably better than any other group. Don't discount the military as a major cultural influence in a state with more than a quarter of all active duty military personnel.

Virginia's economy had been different from a lot of the South's. Its industries as I understand were less labor-intensive and its slaves were employed more as servants than field hands as compared to other states. IIRC Virginia nearly voted to phase out slavery in the 1840s. Then the Virginia side of DC was retrocessed back and the state became more strongly pro-slavery (there was a huge slave market in Alexandria).

Virginia did not immediately secede like the Deep South; it seceded when called upon to raise regiments to fight other Southerners. Naturally, that pushed the Virginians over. Antebellum Virginia was not only quite wealthy comparatively, but also had a huge military tradition (just like it does today, I'd wager more than any other state). So that was a huge boon to the Confederacy.

Of all of the Southern cities, Richmond was one of the fastest to recover as well. Which made it a relatively wealthy state for the South even after the civil war. Today, Virginia is the 8th wealthiest state according to wiki.

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[Hauldren Collider]

HC and Kuci could do this together and do a video about it

Lrn2Read, idiot.

By the way, anyone who says racism isn't a problem anymore in the south is fooling themselves. It's still a problem everywhere, and any honest person will admit that. But it's definitely not restricted to the south, and the south has improved incredible amounts since the days of Martin Luther King, Jr.

PS: Kuci was born in Alabama (though he professes to be ashamed of this ) and grew up in Tennessee before moving to Virginia. I was born in Tennessee, though I don't really remember it that well.

[Ben Kenobi]

You know, all this talk about "the south"... why don't you guys visit "the south" for a change? Drive down all the way to Mobile, Alabama, park your car in front of the local police station, walk through all the major streets of the town and observe how things are like.

I have heard excellent things about your beaches. I have a standing invite from a friend in Georgia - so perhaps one day!

And likewise, anybody headed out this way is welcome to stop by.

[RGBVideo]

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[Hauldren Collider]

uhh... what

why so defensive, all of a sudden?

It sounded like you were accusing me of parroting Ben's line. Sorry if that's not the case. That makes me upset, hope you understand

[Ben Kenobi]

Geesh - personally it's a compliment if you copy my ideas.

[kentonio]

Economically it would be suicide for the North because of all the industry moving south, I think.

Dont many of the Southern states take more out of the federal budget than they contribute though?

[Hauldren Collider]

It's a little more complicated than that. Some states do, sure, but for instance in the case of Virginia and Alaska it's complicated by the fact that much of it is federal spending that would happen anyway, the only question is where. Alaska gets federal money because it's incredibly strategic for air and missile defense. These are things we would want to have anyway, but they go in Alaska because that's the best place for them.

It's inevitable that some states take in more than they put out, but that doesn't mean they are a drag on the economy.