Catholic Church has skeptic arrested for explaining miracle

[Kidlicious]

Slavery is against God's will. The Spirit doesn't just inform us on personal spiritual matters. I think describing it that way would shock Jesus to the core. The Spirit guides us on what is right and what is wrong. That means more than simply personal spiritual matters, but also injustices in our world. Jesus called out more than few injustices going on in 1st Century Palestine among the Jewish religious leaders and the Roman occupiers.

Those injustices were religious matters. Notice that slavery is not one of them. The Roman occupation was an injustice, but Jesus made it clear that that was not what he was sent to correct. Jesus spoke against the nonparticipation of the Sabbath Year because that is a religious matter. The High Priests were rejecting the Sabbath. The Sabbath Year is not for the poor. It's for God, to learn that all things belong to God. Slaves were freed for the slaves and other economic interests. That issue is not a spiritual matter, and although it's good that they are free, because that was an injustice, it is not a spiritual matter.

[Kidlicious]

Ben, you're misquoting me, partially quoting me, and then based on your misquotes and partial quotes you jump to conclusions and decide that I'm not a real christian.
You're not trying to understand my point, and debate that point, you're not even trying set up an argument, you're just a one-way trick pony that bend my words in such a way so that you can resend your monologue.

Answer me again and address the points I'm trying to make, and you'll get a response.
I'm not trowing you words and thoughts just only so that you can re-arrange them in the way that pleases you so that you can feed on it and do with it as you like.

And the fact that you're telling me all the time that I'm not a real christian underlines this. Who're you to judge?

I don't think he's judging you. He's just debating you. Judging you would be not debating you at all and putting you on ignore and telling people that you aren't a real christian and not to listen to you like JM does.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Those injustices were religious matters. Notice that slavery is not one of them. The Roman occupation was an injustice, but Jesus made it clear that that was not what he was sent to correct. Jesus spoke against the nonparticipation of the Sabbath Year because that is a religious matter. The High Priests were rejecting the Sabbath. The Sabbath Year is not for the poor. It's for God, to learn that all things belong to God. Slaves were freed for the slaves and other economic interests. That issue is not a spiritual matter, and although it's good that they are free, because that was an injustice, it is not a spiritual matter.

Jesus claimed He was King. That is a political as well as a spiritual statement. What, you think the Romans would kill him simply for pissing off some Jewish religious leaders? Jesus came to right the wrongs and begin to set the world right. He didn't come so a few people could feel better about their personal relationship to God - He came to change the world.

[Kenneth23]

I don't what I'm will say, for that matter, but for me,Even though we don't involve here any Big religions I can say
we should have peace with each other as human in order to live peacefully in this planet.

[Kidlicious]

Jesus claimed He was King. That is a political as well as a spiritual statement. What, you think the Romans would kill him simply for pissing off some Jewish religious leaders? Jesus came to right the wrongs and begin to set the world right. He didn't come so a few people could feel better about their personal relationship to God - He came to change the world.

Like I said, 1 John 5:19. No, he did not come as a King like that. That's how the Jews expected him to come. That's why they sang praises to him when he entered Jeruselum and waved palm leaves. But he didn't come as a King like that. The early christians and apostles didn't believe that. This is a believe that many christians today have made up.

[Kidlicious]

Here Imran. John 18:36, Jesus replied, "My kingdom doesn't originate from this world. If it did, my gaurds would fight so that I wouldn't have been arrested by the Jews. My kingdom isn't from here." If that doesn't do it for you you have a closed mind.

[Ben Kenobi]

Jesus claimed He was King. That is a political as well as a spiritual statement. What, you think the Romans would kill him simply for pissing off some Jewish religious leaders? Jesus came to right the wrongs and begin to set the world right. He didn't come so a few people could feel better about their personal relationship to God - He came to change the world.

Not of this Earth, and it's very important to remember that.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, you're misquoting me, partially quoting me, and then based on your misquotes and partial quotes you jump to conclusions and decide that I'm not a real christian.

It's pretty clear to me that you are unwilling to teach the entire gospel, and choose to wilfully contradict and remain silent about parts that you feel are outdated.

you're just a one-way trick pony that bend my words in such a way so that you can resend your monologue.

Nonsense. I opened up debate about points where you believed that the Church was wrong. Rather then continue to pursue the discussion, you shut it down.

Answer me again and address the points I'm trying to make, and you'll get a response.

Asked and answered.

And the fact that you're telling me all the time that I'm not a real christian underlines this. Who're you to judge?

And the fact that you're asking me to treat you like an unbeliever is telling. 1 Cor 5:12 - 13

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you."

[Ben Kenobi]

The Papal Bulls did more than just tell them they had to choose between sinful slavery and non-sinful anti-slavery, they legitimized Portuguese and Spanish slavery of AmerIndians and Muslims. It was accepted by the Vatican. The only bullcrap is in your posts asserting the opposite.

Muslims ran the slave trade. They would enslave blacks, Christians, anybody they could get their hands on. Look at Malta. If you had the misfortune of getting captured by Muslims you were enslaved for the rest of your life. Look at Russia. The slaving of Christians was huge there. Same with Spain.

But why would I expect Imran to own up to this historical fact? Also the Church was opposed to slavery in the Americas. All I have to do is quote the folks who were there who wrote on this issue, and they all say the same thing - they were trying to preserve the native americans.

[Dr Strangelove]

I doubt that Jesus ever really claimed to be a king, since "king" is a German title and doesn't appear to have been used until around 300 AD. I wonder what the actual word was?

[Ben Kenobi]

I doubt that Jesus ever really claimed to be a king, since "king" is a German title and doesn't appear to have been used until around 300 AD. I wonder what the actual word was?

John 18:36 uses basileia.

ἀπεκρίθη Ἰησοῦς: ἡ βασιλεία ἡ ἐμὴ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου: εἰ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου ἦν ἡ βασιλεία ἡ ἐμή, οἱ ὑπηρέται οἱ ἐμοὶ ἠγωνίζοντο ἄν, ἵνα μὴ παραδοθῶ τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις: νῦν δὲ ἡ βασιλεία ἡ ἐμὴ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐντεῦθεν.

The vulgate uses

Respondit Jesus : Regnum meum non est de hoc mundo. Si ex hoc mundo esset regnum meum, ministri mei utique decertarent ut non traderer Judæis : nunc autem regnum meum non est hinc

Next verse:

εἶπεν οὖν αὐτῷ ὁ Πιλᾶτος: οὐκοῦν βασιλεὺς εἶ σύ; ἀπεκρίθη [ὁ] Ἰησοῦς: σὺ λέγεις, ὅτι βασιλεύς εἰμι. ἐγὼ εἰς τοῦτο γεγέννημαι καὶ εἰς τοῦτο ἐλήλυθα εἰς τὸν κόσμον, ἵνα μαρτυρήσω τῇ ἀληθείᾳ: πᾶς ὁ ὢν ἐκ τῆς ἀληθείας ἀκούει μου τῆς φωνῆς.

Dixit itaque ei Pilatus : Ergo rex es tu? Respondit Jesus : Tu dicis quia rex sum ego. Ego in hoc natus sum, et ad hoc veni in mundum, ut testimonium perhibeam veritati : omnis qui est ex veritate, audit vocem meam

John 18:36-7

Jesus answered: My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would certainly strive that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now my kingdom is not from hence.

Pilate therefore said to him: Are you a king then? Jesus answered: You say that I am a king. For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth hears my voice.

[Uncle Sparky]

I don't think you have read it carefully.

Even Paul who was politically mister "don't rock the boat" said that there was no difference between slave and free and that slaves who can get free should.

JM
edit: Imran's reply is better

And Ben, the Papal Bulls Dum Diversas and Romanus Pontifex said that slavery was alright as long as not done to fellow Christians.

Exactly. So Christians can own slaves. iirc 'indentured servitude' came about as a loophope to Christians 'owning' Christians. There is no difference between a Christian slave entering heaven and a free Christian entering heaven. This was the big selling point when Christianity started up, and why it still does very well among the destitute and illiterate.

[Ben Kenobi]

iirc 'indentured servitude' came about as a loophope to Christians 'owning' Christians

For one, it's a voluntary contract with a finite period. You don't own the servant. The servant is paid and is free to leave when the contract is up. Really, not much different than any other employment contract.

[Uncle Sparky]

Except that is wasn't uncommon for extra debentures to be added by the 'employer' (such as room & board) to make the payment out of servitude impossible.

[Ben Kenobi]

Except that is wasn't uncommon for extra debentures to be added by the 'employer' (such as room & board) to make the payment out of servitude impossible.

Sounds just like taxes. And no, you didn't have to 'pay your way out', the contract was up when it was up.