Catholic Church has skeptic arrested for explaining miracle

[Lonestar]

Or, at least, they got an arrest warrant.

4 July 2012.This morning, officers of the Delhi Police reached Sanal Edamaruku’s house to arrest him. They came upon directions of a Delhi court to execute an arrest warrant issued by a Mumbai Metropolitan Magistrate Court (second highest Criminal Court). If Sanal had been at home, he would be in jail now....

The officers were informed that Sanal is presently out of Delhi and traveling. They insisted on details of his whereabouts, addresses and contact numbers. Some hours later, they came again to press for information, to no avail.

What will happen next?

With this dramatic turn of events, Sanal Edamaruku’s persecution has reached a dangerous new level. Exposing the “miracle” of the water-dripping crucifix at the Velankanni church in Mumbai as a plumber’s problem, he incurred Catholic fury beyond all trademark forgiveness. Highly alarming is the fact that the Catholic side has managed to secure considerable support from Indian government agencies. The Catholic Church is representing only a small minority of believers in India. But it is backed by a powerful worldwide apparatus, driven by great ambitions to conquer India and make up for its losses in the western world. I don’t want the Dark Ages to come to India! Sanal says in the controversial TV program, drawing the battle lines

In the ongoing conflict, Sanal has the evidence-based factual truth on his side - regarding capillary action as well as regarding church history. Moreover, he enjoys the full support of the Indian Constitution that explicitly obliges all citizens to develop “scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform”. And then, of course, there is the right to Freedom of Expression (Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.) on his side of the balance tray.

The revengeful local Catholic leaders, on the other side, have the tacit support of another heavy weight: the powerful Catholic Church. The Pope is keeping mum, ignoring thousands of contemporaries from various parts of the world who are calling upon the Vatican via an Online Petition of the Rationalist Association (UK) to take a stand in this case. But his Mumbai representative, Bishop Agnelo Gracias (whom Sanal encountered in the TV-9 program), does all the talking. Unstinting in his public praise for Sanal’s prosecutors, Gracias “rejoices” about their courage!

It is obvious that the Catholic Church is trying to pull the strings to silence its most vocal and courageous opponent in India. If there is one person who could cross their ambitious plans, it is Sanal Edamaruku. So there is much at stake, for both sides. How far will they be able to go? That cannot be foreseen. We have to be prepared for the worst.

What was his crime? He figured out that the water "miraculously" dripping from a crucifix statue was, in fact, sewage water that had leaked from a nearby restroom. He then advised people not to drink it.

Remember folks, this is the same organization that Ben supports and whines he was persecuted for being a member of in Canada.

This skeptic is the same guy who, a few years ago, laughed off a death-by-sorcery ritual on nationwide live television. He has definitely got style.

[Ben Kenobi]

You're late, this has already been posted Lonestar.

[dannubis]

Religeous stupidity and and its incessant attempts at infraction on personal freedoms can not be exposed enough, Ben.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yep 1 percent of Christians in India oppressing the other 99.

[dannubis]

Religeon indeed includes Christians Ben. But also Muslims, Hindus and whatnot you have in India these days.

[Robert]

It's a stupid ignorant thing to do by the local RC overthere. And eventhough the RCC is doing a lot of stupid things lately it's still a bit silly to claim that the entire RCC is therefore stupid and silly. There may be other reasons, but that's not one of them.

I have heard a lot of ignorant wannabe atheists lately claim that the god particle showed that there was no god, b/c there was now a god-particle instead.
Anyway, the RCC really needs some major organizational structuring. Unfortunately it'll never allow that. The RCC doctrine is a rope around it's own neck. Only if they will reject some old church teachings (which are now sacred, and will therefore never change!) the church can't change and will therefore not survive.

Protestant churches do not have this problem b/c every church is local in protestantism. If a church doesn't evolve with time (which is a christian thing to do!) then the local church will just be replaced by another one.

The basic problem is just that humans are mainly conversative.
People don't like it to have their way of life and thinking change.
In the hypotethical situation where neo-Darwinism would be proven wrong by scientists and replaced by a new scientific theory, even then large majorities of todays scholars and scientist will reject that and Darwinism will live long after the scientific death of it. That's how we humans work and think. Only a few prefer change over stability. (and thanks to those few we are where we are today!)

But never make this silly mistake to think that 'you' are smarter or more enlightened b/c you follow a 'post modern' teaching while others follow a more dated teaching. You're just lucky for now. The real question is: will you be able to adopt or change if humanity progresses beyond your system?

[dannubis]

I certainly won't try to stop progress, Plomp.

[Kidlicious]

Protestant churches do not have this problem b/c every church is local in protestantism. If a church doesn't evolve with time (which is a christian thing to do!) then the local church will just be replaced by another one.

Evolving with time is a christian thing to do? The thing about progress is it's all in the mind of the believer. Every individual has their own idea about what progress is. Likewise every generation also has their own idea about what progress is. But the truth is that every individual and every generation must start from the beginning. The progress that other individuals have made does nothing for the individual. Should future generations not have to grow closer to God the same as previous ones? Should they just be born with a higher status?

[Ben Kenobi]

Anyway, the RCC really needs some major organizational structuring.

How would you propose that the RCC ought to change their organization?

Only if they will reject some old church teachings

Which ones would you like to see go, Robert?

The real question is: will you be able to adopt or change if humanity progresses beyond your system?

What makes you believe that human nature now is superior to human nature 500 years ago?

[Robert]

Evolving with time is a christian thing to do? The thing about progress is it's all in the mind of the believer. Every individual has their own idea about what progress is. Likewise every generation also has their own idea about what progress is. But the truth is that every individual and every generation must start from the beginning. The progress that other individuals have made does nothing for the individual. Should future generations not have to grow closer to God the same as previous ones? Should they just be born with a higher status?

the gospel is clear about adopting to the culture. 'be a greek with the greek and a jew with the jews' and 'obey the laws of the king', etc.
Also Peter says to not be hated by others b/c you're interfering with their affairs.

Of course christians have always done a good job ignoring what their most important teachers (the Bible writers that is) told them. Jesus told us to not hate our enemies and slaughter them.... what did we do?

The many many many wrongs of christianity are not b/c of the christian doctrine but b/c of the christians, who are themselves nothing more then humans. And humans are like.... stopping progression

[Ben Kenobi]

the gospel is clear about adopting to the culture. 'be a greek with the greek and a jew with the jews' and 'obey the laws of the king', etc.

So slavery is ok then?

[Robert]

How would you propose that the RCC ought to change their organization?

you know the answers I'll give....
The entire hierarchy should be gone. in christianity there aren't levels of hierarchy, we can learn from eachother of course, and some may know mroe then others, but in the end christianity is the faith of an individual. It's between 1 human and God.
Where there's hierarchy there's corruption and power and politics.

Which ones would you like to see go, Robert?

All of them.

What makes you believe that human nature now is superior to human nature 500 years ago?

Nothing, I didn't say such a thing.
Times are changing and so are cultures. Christianity is too often thought to be a moral answer on any whickd culture, but it is not.
Do you think that Paul thought slavery was good? No, he said that God had meant all to be equal, men and women, rich and poor, slaves and masters. Yet when a slave came to his door he send him back. And he asked women to accept the rule of their husbands. Not b/c he approved slavery or sexism. No, only b/c christianity isn't about having a moral judgement on any culture, but about spreading the gospel. If Paul would have liberated the slaves and the women, the gospel would have been lost for the men and the slavemasters.

But in the end I'm glad to live in this day and this culture.
Despite our arrogant attitude (humanity in general) we also care for eachother, we don't abuse women and slaves anymore. We respect the right of the individual. I think that's a good thing.

[Robert]

So slavery is ok then?

What's ok? What's not ok?
Can you make the perfect judgement between good and evil?
What's better? Being unemployed and having nothing to feed your children with, or having a good slavemaster who feeds you and your family and treats you well?

Personally I think that slavery is not ok and nobody is the property of someone else.
But I'm glad that christianity is not a political system that tries to 'fix' the problems of this world by 'forcing' certain social structures on the society. That's for politicians. (and I hope they'll do their very best).
If you think that the problems of this world can be fixed by laying some rules upon it, then you've not understood a single word of christianity.

[Kidlicious]

the gospel is clear about adopting to the culture. 'be a greek with the greek and a jew with the jews' and 'obey the laws of the king', etc.
Also Peter says to not be hated by others b/c you're interfering with their affairs.

I don't know what this has to do with believing that successive generations progress. Let's say a majority of a future generation is satanist. Does that mean christians should adopt satanistic doctrine? You completely sidestepped my point. The idea that future generations progress is all in your head. Where did you get this idea?

Of course christians have always done a good job ignoring what their most important teachers (the Bible writers that is) told them. Jesus told us to not hate our enemies and slaughter them.... what did we do?

And did you realize that those people believed in progressivism? They believed that their generation had gained enlightenment, and that they knew better than early christians.

The many many many wrongs of christianity are not b/c of the christian doctrine but b/c of the christians, who are themselves nothing more then humans. And humans are like.... stopping progression

Where do you get the idea that stopping 'progress' is inherently bad? "Progress" is just a word for what you believe and you've attached a positive word to it. But you've asssumed in the first place that you should know better than previous generations.

I'm not saying that previous generations were any better, as they believed similar to you. I'm saying that every generation believes that there is something special about them. There isn't. Every generation starts in the same place.

[Uncle Sparky]

So slavery is ok then?

According to the Christian Bible, yes. You 'Mercans should try reading it.