Anyone Else Staying Up For The CERN Announcement About The Higgs Boson Tonight?

[Ben Kenobi]

He never said he supports "big government", moron.

Sure he does. When the argument is between smaller government and larger government, he sides with big government every time. Just as he's doing here.

It's not a coincidence that Kuci, KH and I are all on the same side here, everyone who understands economics.

[The Mad Monk]

The plurality of SpaceX's funding comes from a government-run space program.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[Ben Kenobi]

The plurality of SpaceX's funding comes from a government-run space program.

Only because the government claims that it owns the hardware already up there. If the government were to sell everything, they'd no longer be the largest client.

Most of their funding comes from outside of the government.

Considering as they've managed to drop the costs several orders of magnitude, it makes sense for the government to go with the business. Much more sense than having them do it themselves.

Having a company with their largest contract being the government is one thing, having it entirely funded by the government quite another.

[Asher]

Which is why we haven't been to the moon in the last 40 years? Maybe 40 years ago, Nasa was about Space EXPLORATION. They've devolved, but they are still choking down the same dollars. Where's the incentive to take on risk when they get paid the same to do nothing?

NASA has already been to the moon. Why keep spending money to go back somewhere they've already been?

[Asher]

Sure he does. When the argument is between smaller government and larger government, he sides with big government every time. Just as he's doing here.

It's not a coincidence that Kuci, KH and I are all on the same side here, everyone who understands economics.

People who understand economics do not understand science, because people who understand science know that economics is not a science.

I don't support big government, but I do support scientific research. You, as someone who routinely rejects science, do not. Not surprising.

You do, however, support the government regulating your bedroom.

[Ben Kenobi]

NASA has already been to the moon. Why keep spending money to go back somewhere they've already been?

Because that's what the people want to spend money on? As you said, whatever the democracy wants is what they should get.

[Asher]

Because that's what the people want to spend money on? As you said, whatever the democracy wants is what they should get.

Can you please provide your source that the US representatives voted to continue visiting the moon?

[Lorizael]

Clearly, he's not a fan of Heinlein. If the folks that we are churning out are so specialized, then that's a dead loss. Sure, it's great if they hit exactly what they need, but I'm unconvinced that specializing to this degree is actually helpful.

Scientists, no matter their specialty, have to have a strong foundation in a broad array of topics, but if they want to make discoveries within a particular field, they have be specialized, to a high degree, in that field. Any working scientist today will tell you that. A blogger scientist I follow (Chad Orzel) has remarked that doing your doctoral thesis means becoming the "World's Greatest Expert on something nobody else really cares about."

[Lorizael]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX#Funding

[Ben Kenobi]

People who understand economics do not understand science

Between you and me, there's only one of us trained as a scientist. That would be me.

You don't understand economics at all. It does provide testable hypotheses. The problem with government funding is that it's impossible for the government to allocate scarce dollars as well as the free market. The government is prone to do the following:

1, funding bad science at the cost of good science, because bad science happens to be politically correct (see 'green' technologies). What the government has wasted here is money that could have been used to improve people's lives, by funding useful research. Solyndra, etc.

2, funding people who lobby well, at the expense of people who research well. They award, not based on competence, but whomever has the largest megaphone. This leads to bad outcomes, when the megaphones get in over their heads.

3, compensation is not based on results. Sure 'publishing stuff', is considered 'results', but do we really care about what they publish rather than publishing useful stuff? Government punishes innovation by rewarding failure, and shunning risk. This is why manned exploration has devolved over the last 40 years, because getting paid to do nothing is far more rewarding than to actually do something.

I don't support big government, but I do support scientific research.

You do support big government funding things that you like. As always.

You, as someone who routinely rejects science, do not. Not surprising.

I support private sector scientific research, and not the public sector. That's where all the action is happening.

You do, however, support the government regulating your bedroom.

Given that I believe no one should be forced to pay for contraception, I'm one of the few people here that do not believe the government should regulate my bedroom. Most people here want to get the government involved.

[Ben Kenobi]

Scientists, no matter their specialty, have to have a strong foundation in a broad array of topics

Nonsense. Look at folks like Cavendish. You'd never find anyone like him today, because the system punishes those who do not specialize in one field.

A blogger scientist I follow (Chad Orzel) has remarked that doing your doctoral thesis means becoming the "World's Greatest Expert on something nobody else really cares about.

And that's a problem - we need scientists who have a broad understanding of things, rather than a narrow understanding. Having your scientific expertise be a pinprick, means you need an awful lot of pinpricks. It also means you are utterly useless, if what you reseach isn't actually furthering knowledge.

If I can go to a scientific conference and ask my colleagues about Heinlein, and have blank stares, then something is clearly not right.

[Asher]

Between you and me, there's only one of us trained as a scientist. That would be me.

It doesn't count if it comes from a no-name university and you're banished from the country shortly after completion.

You don't understand economics at all.

The most dangerous economists are the ones who think it is a science.

For two years I worked with a lot of hotheads like Kuci and KH who swore up and down how they knew everything about the market. Within weeks the whole company, and economy, imploded on them.

You do support big government funding things that you like. As always.

I don't like physics, actually. Hated it.

I support private sector scientific research, and not the public sector. That's where all the action is happening.

Yup. For instance, the private sector just found the Higgs Boson.

Given that I believe no one should be forced to pay for contraception, I'm one of the few people here that do not believe the government should regulate my bedroom. Most people here want to get the government involved.

People underestimate the tremendous costs contraception has on the government. Why worry about legislating who you can marry when we've got bigger fish to fry?

I heard Alberta Health is actually distributing condoms FOR FREE during the Stampede this week. THE NERVE, truly.

[Ben Kenobi]

Can you please provide your source that the US representatives voted to continue visiting the moon?

That's your argument, not mine. Or are you arguing that what the representatives want is what counts and not 'we the people'?

[Asher]

That's your argument, not mine.

I recall arguing distinctly that NASA should NOT keep revisiting the moon. So it is most certainly not my argument.

Or are you arguing that what the representatives want is what counts and not 'we the people'?

The people elect their representatives.

As a scientist you seem to have difficulty understanding basic concepts.

[Demonbinder]

Many things came out of the race to get to the moon, e.g. better technology to detect breast cancer, just to name one. NASA currently gets 1/2 of each penny of American's tax dollars. A lot more could get done if we just doubled that (my preference is to take it from the bloated military budget which is funding planes and other items we don't need) but I would prefer to make it 2 cents/dollar. Developing new technology leads to many useful things. Check the NASA spinoff sites for these.