Doesn't The "Stolen Valor" Ruling Bother Anyone?

[Ben Kenobi]

There are jobs where having a military honor is not only a requirement, but a relevant requirement affecting one's ability to perform the job?

Quite a few.

Also, how hard is it to confirm that someone did, in fact, receive a medal, esp. a medal of honor? Those aren't all that common.

People aren't allowed to lie about academic credentials, so I don't see why this is any different. It's fraud, plain and simple.

The most effective way to check fraud of this manner would be for the vets to post up a public database of all MOH winners.

[Lefty Scaevola]

The law was grossly overbroad. As written, it applied to any such lie, to anyone, for any purpose. If you told your 6 year old son that you were an x decorated verteran in the privacy of your own home, this law applied.
All congress need do is wrtie it again so that it only applies when the lie is to gain some of economic value (like say a job or an elected position or a candy bar) and it pass muster like any other fraud law.
It is possible but iffy that a law applying to any public false claim of this type might pass muster, to protect the publics interest in the honor of the decoration. If congress wanted to try to keep that in, I would advise putting it in a separate section with a milder penalty than the one with a economic fraud involved.

People aren't allowed to lie about academic credentials, so I don't see why this is any different. It's fraud, plain and simple.

No, it is not fraud unless it done to gain some economic value, any more than it is fraud for somone to falsely brag to buddies about some achievment

[Imran Siddiqui]

If they land a job because of that deception, it looks like a clear-cut case of fraud to me. Why do Americans tie themselves up in knots over these laws?

Well that's one of the main issues. The Stolen Valor Act has no provision for actual damages done as a result of the lying, such as fraudulently obtaining a job. So basically just drunkenly saying you are Medal of Honor recipient in a bar full of people can make you subject to criminal prosecution.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What Lefty said

[Ben Kenobi]

No, it is not fraud unless it done to gain some economic value, any more than it is fraud for somone to falsely brag to buddies about some achievment

Pretty sure the law considers it fraud for non-doctors to provide medical advice, non-lawyers to provide legal advice, etc. Licensing agencies take that very seriously. Then you have con artists who actually work as a teacher, drive buses, wear a collar, fake a badge.

Even if there is no economic motive, it's still fraud.

[Imran Siddiqui]

They don't get paid for that?

I know plenty of folk who are just fine giving legal advice for free. They aren't doing anything illegal by it though.

[Ben Kenobi]

They don't get paid for that?

Not usually, no.

I know plenty of folk who are just fine giving legal advice for free. They aren't doing anything illegal by it though.

There's nothing wrong with lawyers dispensing free legal advice. Nor is it wrong for non-lawyers to supply free legal advice. But if they dispense free legal advice and say, "I'm a lawyer, trust me", they cross that line. The reason it's there is to protect the public. The economic incentive is ancillary. Fraud doesn't hinge on making money off the fraud.

[giblets]

Pretty sure the law considers it fraud for non-doctors to provide medical advice, non-lawyers to provide legal advice, etc. Licensing agencies take that very seriously. Then you have con artists who actually work as a teacher, drive buses, wear a collar, fake a badge.

Even if there is no economic motive, it's still fraud.

Not usually, no.



There's nothing wrong with lawyers dispensing free legal advice. Nor is it wrong for non-lawyers to supply free legal advice. But if they dispense free legal advice and say, "I'm a lawyer, trust me", they cross that line. The reason it's there is to protect the public. The economic incentive is ancillary. Fraud doesn't hinge on making money off the fraud.

Appalling dishonesty... all you said was "non-lawyers offering legal advice", not "non-lawyers claiming to be a lawyer". Just admit you wrote something false...

[SlowwHand]

Let's be clear, it's not just MOH recipients. Per the ruling, any lie can be told about service. Do you realize the ramifications? I think not.

[giblets]

As a veteran of the first world war I've seen far scarier things than someone falsely claiming to have served in the military.

[Ben Kenobi]

Appalling dishonesty... all you said was "non-lawyers offering legal advice", not "non-lawyers claiming to be a lawyer". Just admit you wrote something false...

Gribbler's been chomping at the bit since MikeH PWNT himself. Don't you have something better to do?

Adults are trying to have a discussion.

[SlowwHand]

As a veteran of the first world war I've seen far scarier things than someone falsely claiming to have served in the military.

I don't remember using the term "scary". I'm not talking about a monster under your bed. Besides being highly insulting, it will slow down the process on all things veteran related.

[giblets]

Gribbler's been chomping at the bit since MikeH PWNT himself. Don't you have something better to do?

Adults are trying to have a discussion.

MikeH wrote something incorrect about crocodiles, I corrected it without being rude, then you came along over a day later and made some obnoxious remarks about it. Gee, maybe people would be nicer to you if you weren't such an ass.

[giblets]

I don't remember using the term "scary". I'm not talking about a monster under your bed. Besides being highly insulting, it will slow down the process on all things veteran related.

I don't know what process you're referring to. If there are ramifications, I don't realize them.

[Ben Kenobi]

Gee, maybe people would be nicer to you if you weren't such an ass.

Given the thread title mocked americans for their education, the irony is delicious. Apparently, ignorance of evolution doesn't end at the American border.