Chief Justice Roberts saves Obamacare!

[giblets]

Here's the thing, if I understand things correctly: because Roberts used the "tax" route, the AIA (Anti Injunction Act) applies. If AIA applies, Obamacare hasn't been upheld, it's been punted. The law is open to another challenge as soon as the penalty is first levied on anybody. this is why the other four justices wrote their won opinion and were upset that the Commerce Clause wasn't invoked. This is happening again in two years.

No, that wasn't Roberts' argument. The AIA is a creation of Congress. It is an act passed specifically to limit the ability to sue to enjoin enforcement of other acts of Congress. Therefore the relevant definition of "tax" is "anything that Congress calls a tax". Congress could also have called it a tax but also said "by the way, the AIA doesn't apply to this" and lo and behold, the AIA wouldn't have applied.

By contrast, Congress doesn't get to define what "tax" means for the purpose of Article 1 Section 8. They cannot write a law saying "no one may criticize the President" and then call that a tax; even something that looks somewhat like a tax may be a non-tax if it more closely resembles a punitive fine. The individual mandate closely resembles a tax in many ways (enumerated by Roberts) and so is a tax (for Constitutional purposes) by virtue of having the form of one.

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[-Jrabbit]

Wow, go away for a day or so and all Ben breaks loose. I'm amazed that no one posted this, back a few pages...

For declining to pay the O-Care fine, but paying all my other taxes? Free exercise of religion is guaranteed.

The Obamacare administration is welcome to throw all the Catholics in jail.
Nope, I ain't paying squat. Obama can come and arrest me.

WWJD? "Render unto Caesar, baby."

[The Mad Monk]

...but since congress didn't call it a tax, they never inserted language stating that the AIA doesn't apply. The courts now consider it a tax, regardless of what Congress originally called it, and since the lawsuits will be filed in court, I think that's the definition that will apply.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, a few people using more healthcare than they pay for does not trigger rationing. In any insurance scheme someone is going to use more than they pay for.

Yes, and that is why they end up having to ration it. If it wasn't rationed, it would be like the condom box, there is no incentive for the person not to use all the healthcare resources they can. This deprives other people from having access at all.

Yes. You could have also picked 1, 2 and 100. Either way the number you end up with is useless. You don't need to pick any arbitrary numbers to find that the median grade is a B, and you would have to be pretty dumb to think 'C' should get more points than 'A' in an actual GPA calculation. Also, you'd have to be pretty dumb to think GPA's of 1.75 and 2.24 are not significantly different from one another. When you were in university would you have not cared whether you had a GPA of 1.75 or 2.24?

Then you need to reread my explanation.

1.75 under a scheme where an A is 1, and a B is 2, is still a B.
2.25 under a scheme where an A is 3, and a B is 2, is also still a B.

A 4.0 GPA is good under a system that says an A is 4. A system that has an A as 0, 4.00 is crap.

The math works exactly the same. 4.0 for an A is completely arbitrary.

[Ben Kenobi]

WWJD? "Render unto Caesar, baby."

So the state owns unborn children? Maybe they should put up abortion tolls all over America.

[giblets]

Aren't Tax Bills required by the Constitution to originate in the House? The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act originated in the Senate.

I think it originated in the House. Then the House agreed to changes proposed by the Senate.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2012/06/29/if-the-health-care-law-is-really-a-tax-law-is-it-doomed-on-procedure/

[MRT144]

No, a few people using more healthcare than they pay for does not trigger rationing. In any insurance scheme someone is going to use more than they pay for.

Why do you support socialism with your insurance schemes!

[MRT144]

Yes, and that is why they end up having to ration it. If it wasn't rationed, it would be like the condom box, there is no incentive for the person not to use all the healthcare resources they can. This deprives other people from having access at all.



Then you need to reread my explanation.

1.75 under a scheme where an A is 1, and a B is 2, is still a B.
2.25 under a scheme where an A is 3, and a B is 2, is also still a B.

A 4.0 GPA is good under a system that says an A is 4. A system that has an A as 0, 4.00 is crap.

The math works exactly the same. 4.0 for an A is completely arbitrary.

Arbitrary except when you're trying to make an analogy. Which you tried to do. using arbitrary values that don't show any resemblance to what we know as GPA.

But please, you haven't even begun to make a comparison between the US and Canada based on metrics provided. Canada clearly has better outcomes, no matter how much you butcher an analogy.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Aren't Tax Bills required by the Constitution to originate in the House? The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act originated in the Senate.

Senate passed HR3590. It was a hollowed out shell of a bill that was originally intended as tax breaks (ironically enough) for military homeowners that passed in the house first.

-xpost grib

[MRT144]

Also, why do we have to basically drag you into explaining what you actually mean almost every single time you post something? Nothing you post or say ever stands for itself because it's so contrary to what you think you're communicating.

[notyoueither]

Arbitrary except when you're trying to make an analogy. Which you tried to do. using arbitrary values that don't show any resemblance to what we know as GPA.

But please, you haven't even begun to make a comparison between the US and Canada based on metrics provided. Canada clearly has better outcomes, no matter how much you butcher an analogy.

... and then there is the cost.

[-Jrabbit]

So the state owns unborn children? Maybe they should put up abortion tolls all over America.

WTF are you even talking about??? All I was saying is that Jesus wants you to pay (Render unto Caesar the things that are Casear's...). As any Bible scholar knows, He was a big and early supporter of separating church and state. I believe everyone else who read my post understands that.

[MRT144]

... and then there is the cost.

I was going to get to that.

[notyoueither]

I'm curious if Obamacare will result in standard insurance that everyone gets, and then additional coverage policies where the better-off buy better care.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Aren't Tax Bills required by the Constitution to originate in the House? The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act originated in the Senate.

Like anyone cares about that anymore . I think there have been a handful of tax bills started in the Senate, however, in this case I think the argument is that the House passed its own bill first and then when they got to reconciliation with the Senate bill, they decided they liked it better. However, the House did pass a very similar bill beforehand.