Catholic church condones child rape and is against the abortion that will save her life

[Asher]

FTFY.

Hey, radioactivity does eventually go away.

Be a man and say what you mean.

Because one of the bishops had a male lover, all pedophiles are gay? Or is it that all gays are pedophiles? Or is it that all bishops are gay? Or is it that all gay bishops are pedophiles?

There's so many logical fallacies and bigotry opportunities here that I'm not sure which you chose.

[Ben Kenobi]

I take issue with thought that systemic problems are ever truly and totally fixed. (They may be addressed but that is different than being fixed) The point is the issues are not a simply a task list where in one claims victory (No mission accomplished moment here) and the task is completed. They are instead a long term commitment.

Fine. Would you agree that the nuclear industry in the United States as it is run today is safe and should be permitted to operate in the US? Do you believe that the problems that they did have back in the 70s are much less than today?

I agree - it's never going to be perfect. It can't be. But that doesn't mean that things cannot be improved.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because one of the bishops had a male lover, all pedophiles are gay? Or is it that all gays are pedophiles? Or is it that all bishops are gay? Or is it that all gay bishops are pedophiles?

Do I believe the fact that Weakland failed to uphold his personal continence that this destroyed his ability to be a shepherd for his flock? Absolutely. Do I believe that he would have cause to shield the sins of others along with his own? Absolutely.

There's so many logical fallacies and bigotry opportunities here that I'm not sure which you chose.

Psst, it's Crucifiy him! You're slipping asher. You've only called me to be banned once.

[loinburger]

No, I'm saying that the existing ecclesiastical justice system would be more effective than the existing criminal justice system.

You mean the ecclesiastical justice system that allowed these abuses to happen for decades/centuries?

Right, because Catholics!=Priests. Where did I say that Catholics should be exempt from criminal prosecution? I'm referring to priests.

Alright then, should Imams get their own justice system?

[Asher]

Do I believe the fact that Weakland failed to uphold his personal continence that this destroyed his ability to be a shepherd for his flock? Absolutely. Do I believe that he would have cause to shield the sins of others along with his own? Absolutely.

So he's the first Priest to ever sin.

[Ben Kenobi]

You mean the ecclesiastical justice system that allowed these abuses to happen for decades/centuries?

Were they ever taken before a tribunal? No? See, that's why the bishops did what they did and why the bishops were so important. By covering it up, they prevented the Church from doing anything to address it. So long as the circle of silence was kept, and the bishops controlled who had authority in their province - it would work. And it did, for decades.

So, if the criminal justice system wants to show itself capable of dealing with the situation, arrest Weakland. They've had 10 years to do so, and haven't done squat. Show me the money, Loinburger.

Alright then, should Imams get their own justice system?

If they are willing to relocate to Mecca - sure. The tribunals are in Rome - btw. If I had my way, they wouldn't set foot on US soil again.

[Asher]

Were they ever taken before a tribunal? No? See, that's why the bishops did what they did and why the bishops were so important. By covering it up, they prevented the Church from doing anything to address it. So long as the circle of silence was kept, and the bishops controlled who had authority in their province - it would work. And it did, for decades.

So, if the criminal justice system wants to show itself capable of dealing with the situation, arrest Weakland. They've had 10 years to do so, and haven't done squat. Show me the money, Loinburger.



If they are willing to relocate to Mecca - sure. The tribunals are in Rome - btw. If I had my way, they wouldn't set foot on US soil again.

No priests in the USA! No priests in the USA!

I'm with you, Ben. Down with pedophiles!

[giblets]

No Catholic priests in the USA

[Dr Strangelove]

Sexual abuse, in America, and pick a year. The union keeps the abusers teachers salary. Rubber rooms exist (thanks to the unions), forcing the public to pay for convicted sex offenders. At least the Catholic Church doesn't have the chutzpah to have the public footing the bill.

You're comparing the number of sexual abuses amongst American teachers with those of Irish Catholic childcare workers? I think the fact that the United States has nearly 100 times more population than the Republic of Ireland makes such a comparison ridiculous.

Rubber rooms? In American schools? I don't think so.
Are you saying that if an American teacher gets convicted of a sex crime involving a student that his union keeps his salary, or that they keep the salary while he or she is suspended pending investigation?

[DinoDoc]

Rubber rooms? In American schools? I don't think so.

Does LA count as American?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/21/10465939-where-do-problem-teachers-go-las-rubber-room?lite

Though what this has to do with Catholic abuse scandals, I wouldn't be able to guess. Ben would be in a better place if he simply said the Church dropped the ball and tried highlighting the Church's efforts to redeem itself.

[Ben Kenobi]

Though what this has to do with Catholic abuse scandals, I wouldn't be able to guess. Ben would be in a better place if he simply said the Church dropped the ball and tried highlighting the Church's efforts to redeem itself.

The fact that most of the abuse cases that do get brought up are 40 years old - speaks volumes. If abuse were still happening at the similar rates, why don't we see recent abuse cases?

[Ben Kenobi]

You're comparing the number of sexual abuses amongst American teachers with those of Irish Catholic childcare workers?

No, I'm comparing abuse rates of public school teachers in America vs abuse rates of Catholic priests in America.

A survey by the Washington Post found that “Over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.” And a similar survey by the New York Times found an incidence rate of “1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001.”

The incidence of abuse by teachers is even more staggering, as a 1988 study reported in The Handbook on Sexual Abuse of Children reveals. It reported that “One in four girls, and one in six boys, is sexually abused [by a teacher] by age 18.” A 1991 study revealed that “17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. Fully 13.5 percent said they had sexual intercourse with their teacher,”

Not even in the same ballpark. Catholic priests are at least an order of magnitude less likely to abuse children than public school teachers.

Are you saying that if an American teacher gets convicted of a sex crime involving a student that his union keeps his salary, or that they keep the salary while he or she is suspended pending investigation?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/nyregion/16rubber.html

Had 'em for years. NYC is notorious bad for them.

[DinoDoc]

The fact that most of the abuse cases that do get brought up are 40 years old - speaks volumes. If abuse were still happening at the similar rates, why don't we see recent abuse cases?

Then why bother trying to defend the Church's conduct during that time and cluttering up the issue by bringing up unrelated topics and focus on efforts at restitution and redemption by the Church institution?

[Dr Strangelove]

Does LA count as American?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/21/10465939-where-do-problem-teachers-go-las-rubber-room?lite

One case mentioned in the article was a teacher who ticked off a principle, who lodged complaints about him. The article doesn't say whether any of the charges were ever proved or resulted in a conviction. I would think that showing pornography to a class would be a felony. It's sort of like putting a cop on suspension with pay after shooting someone. OTOH it may be a convenient way for a principle to "remove" a teacher he doesn't get along with without having to prove him incompetent, a process which might backfire on the principle.

[Ben Kenobi]

Then why bother trying to defend the Church's conduct during that time and cluttering up the issue by bringing up unrelated topics and focus on efforts at restitution and redemption by the Church institution?

When the perception of the abuse rates is precisely the opposite of the truth? People believe that the Catholic church is a hotbed for abuse, when in actuality , they are the safest. If you look at any denomination, Catholic priests are the least likely to offend. Media coverage suggests the opposite.