I had no idea Scott Walker was so popular

[Ben Kenobi]

That's the problem I have with Americans, they act as if becoming rich is a natural outcome for everyone

As opposed to socialists who believe that it doesn't matter what they do, the rich will still be rich?

Seriously, capitalists work from the assumption that beneficial economic policies increase the wealth of everyone. Ergo, becoming rich isn't a natural outcome, but the result of hard work, intelligent fiscal policy, good decisionmaking and a little bit of luck.

[kentonio]

Because Chamberlain was a ***** and sold out Czechoslovakia.

Remind me why the fate of Czechoslovakia was intrinsically tied into Britains security?

Seriously. Hitler would have been PWNT by the Czechs, and that would have been the end of that.

Don't be ridiculous.

If Britain had stuck by her friends and allies, she would not be in the position of defending herself alone. Good thing we colonials stuck up for you unlike what you did for the Czechs.

That is almost indescribably stupid. Britain and France not backing the Czechs was foolish and appears craven in hindsight, but the situation was considerable more complex than you seemingly understand.

Same as always, the Brits get in a war, and the colonies bail her out. We suffered, died and bled out under your leadership, and only turned things around to finally break the Hindenburg line. So y'all should be very thankful for us.

Good to see that your grasp on twentieth century European history is about as feeble as your knowledge of the Tudors. The idea that you actually teach history to young people is mindboggling.

[rah]

Yeah, you never know Kentonio. I really hope it works out because a lot of people will be affected.
The Illinois pension plan is SO screwed up. Corruption is rampant. Most pensioners don't contribute a dime towards their health coverage. The system is on the verge of collapse but ANY attempt to change it is challenged at every turn. I almost hope they succeed and block every change and the result is that they end up with nothing. It would serve them right.

AND Why are we even giving elected officials pensions? And then we let them vote on how it's run. IT's lunacy.

[kentonio]

As opposed to socialists who believe that it doesn't matter what they do, the rich will still be rich?

Seriously, capitalists work from the assumption that beneficial economic policies increase the wealth of everyone. Ergo, becoming rich isn't a natural outcome, but the result of hard work, intelligent fiscal policy, good decisionmaking and a little bit of luck.

A number of countries have managed to make the discovery that a healthy mix of the two provides a much better answer for governance that the simple black and white picture that you seem to see. Pure socialism and pure capitalism are both systems doomed to failure and extremely unpleasant for those living under them.

[kentonio]

Yeah, you never know Kentonio. I really hope it works out because a lot of people will be affected.
The Illinois pension plan is SO screwed up. Corruption is rampant. Most pensioners don't contribute a dime towards their health coverage. The system is on the verge of collapse but ANY attempt to change it is challenged at every turn. I almost hope they succeed and block every change and the result is that they end up with nothing. It would serve them right.

AND Why are we even giving elected officials pensions? And then we let them vote on how it's run. IT's lunacy.

I'd actually be in favour of ripping apart a lot of the systems that have become so bloated and twisted and corrupt. The problem is that while I'd want to tear them down and rebuild them, it keeps feeling like the current GOP heirarchy want to just tear them down.

[rah]

There's a big difference between tearing them down and modifying them. In Wisconsin, the end result has been modifying them. (at least it appears that way)

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Well he does a better job than most of the Americans on this site

I see no reason to think he has been able to change anyones mind let alone win their heart. Unless that is code for providing empty vapid arguements intended as simply being inflamatory and likely to create an opinion opposite to what he intended.

.
.

Hmmm

And so I see.... yes quite effective indeed.

... then again, our national posting rate is overrepresented by Alby and Ben (who we try to claim isn't one of us to little avail).

Perhaps, but the point was, if one is attempting to make the case that one's nationalitly is inherently superior at winning hearts and minds (presumably through better cultural awareness), one would think the spokesman would be more examplary of these qualities.

OTOH in light of the above perhaps he is indeed a great example of counter psyops at its finest.

[kentonio]

I see no reason to think he has been able to change anyones mind let alone win their heart. Unless that is code for providing empty vapid arguements intended as simply being inflamatory and likely to create an opinion opposite to what he intended.

Why would you think I have the slightest interest in changing anyones mind?

Perhaps, but the point was, if one is attempting to make the case that one's nationalitly is inherently superior at winning hearts and minds (presumably through better cultural awareness), one would think the spokesman would be more examplary of these qualities.

I was talking about our military who have spent a very long time training and conducting hearts and minds operations. I find the idea of nationalities having particular 'inherent' superiorities to be pretty daft to be honest. That's the kind of thinking that leads to silliness like 'American Exceptionalism'.

[Ben Kenobi]

Remind me why the fate of Czechoslovakia was intrinsically tied into Britains security?

You were her allies, and not only did you side with Germany to cede Czech territory to Germany, you left her no choice when you refused to honor your agreement.

Your foreign policy was to seek alliances with the smaller nations of Eastern Europe for mutual defense. How did that work out? They were all satellited by the Soviet Union.

Had the UK did the right thing with the Czechs, they would have been retained the freedom gained at Versailles. So the question really isn't, "why was your security tied with the Czechs", but why did you lie to them and offer them mutual assurance and then back down? Churchill saw this. Best to fight in the beginning when the enemy is weak. Would have saved millions of lives.

Don't be ridiculous.

Germany in 1938 had 39 regular divisions. Anschluss (remember, Chamberlain was dumb, Hitler was not), gained them another 9. The Czechs had 45.

That is almost indescribably stupid. Britain and France not backing the Czechs was foolish and appears craven in hindsight, but the situation was considerable more complex than you seemingly understand.

You were allies! The situation got a helluva lot more complicated when they were bombing St. Paul. Good thing we decided that Britain's defense was our mutual defense and uphelp our alliances with you.

The idea that you actually teach history to young people is mindboggling.

Well, then, what's your degree, Kentonio? Do you even have one?

[Ben Kenobi]

A number of countries have managed to make the discovery that a healthy mix of the two provides a much better answer for governance that the simple black and white picture that you seem to see. Pure socialism and pure capitalism are both systems doomed to failure and extremely unpleasant for those living under them.

Which is why we have ethanol in our gasoline. Adding socialism to Capitalism, works just as well. Eats away at your engine, increases your maintenance costs, waters down the gasoline. Forces you to pay more for less.

[Zevico]

Wow, defending "peace in our time" Chamberlain. What foolishness.

[giblets]

Which is why we have ethanol in our gasoline. Adding socialism to Capitalism, works just as well. Eats away at your engine, increases your maintenance costs, waters down the gasoline. Forces you to pay more for less.

Adding "socialism" to cars stops people from creating excessive pollution that gives other people cancer and heart disease.

[Hauldren Collider]

We chose to not spend a vast chunk of our GDP on defense. For a country the size of the UK to field an army large enough to invade countries across the globe alone would be foolish in the extreme.

No one suggested you needed to be able to engage in two occupations, but being able to take back a small South American archipelago without crossing your fingers and praying and being able to wage an air war against a north african dictatorship without having to bum on American weapons would be nice.

[Ben Kenobi]

Adding "socialism" to cars stops people from creating excessive pollution that gives other people cancer and heart disease.

It's called a catalytic converter. No wonder you're burning blue...

[kentonio]

You were her allies, and not only did you side with Germany to cede Czech territory to Germany, you left her no choice when you refused to honor your agreement.

Germany in 1938 had 39 regular divisions. Anschluss (remember, Chamberlain was dumb, Hitler was not), gained them another 9. The Czechs had 45.

So let me get this right, Britain and France not protecting the Czechs gave them no choice but to capitulate, but they'd have beaten the Germans anyway? So they just chose to give up their country for fun, right?

Had the UK did the right thing with the Czechs, they would have been retained the freedom gained at Versailles. So the question really isn't, "why was your security tied with the Czechs", but why did you lie to them and offer them mutual assurance and then back down? Churchill saw this. Best to fight in the beginning when the enemy is weak. Would have saved millions of lives.

The mistake you're making (and you're far from the first to make it) is that you're judging the situation of the time with the knowledge of what came after. Chamberlains mistake was to assume that Hitler was playing politics in the manner of a modern politician rather than a conqueror of a century or more previously. Daladier apparently did understand, but let Chamberlain persuade him to negotiate.

I'm no fan of Chamberlain, but to understand his decisions you have to understand that he led a country that had in living memory fought a world war beyond anything the world had seen and lost over a million of her sons. To start a SECOND such war when avoiding such seemed perfectly possible was considered insanity.

It's also important to remember that Hitler lied, and did so with impunity. Despite what you might think about politicians, such bare faced lying by the head of a government and the signing of treaties with the full intent to break them often just months later was far from typical.

Which is why we have ethanol in our gasoline. Adding socialism to Capitalism, works just as well. Eats away at your engine, increases your maintenance costs, waters down the gasoline. Forces you to pay more for less.

Go and read about the age of the Railway Barons and come back and tell me about how wonderful unfettered capitalism is.