Social Security and Medicare are destroying America

[Dauphin]

I work on the assumption that I will effectively get no state pension when I retire. The tax on my private pension will be in excess of anything I get from social security.

[DinoDoc]

I don't think it'd be fair to change the playing field for existing contributors, ...

Fairness implies that there exists some sort of contract between contributors and the government which isn't the case as Ephram Nestor found out to his chagrin.

I'd at least like to be able to opt out of the government's retirement pyramid schemes. I can handle my savings MUCH better than a bunch of crooked politicians.

You are going to be a priest. Sadly it seems to be the only way to escape it.

[kentonio]

For existing contributors? So you don't want any changes to take effect for at least another 40 years, by which point the social security trust fund will have been devoured by baby boomers?

It might require the state to contribute to balance the shortfall, or alternatively they could bring in the changes earlier, but that would depend whether the American public will accept what is technically a breach of promise. As it would only really effect higher earners, it could perhaps be politically palatable.

[Ben Kenobi]

If we could just find a way to cut benefits now instead of later (like implementing means testing) I think we'd be fine

What is going to happen is grandfathering. Essentially, anyone getting on the train is going to get kicked off the train. But they still have to pay in all their lives.

[Felch]

If they were means tested, it would mean that the young either pay upfront, or pay out of a prospective inheritance*. Either way, the young pay.....

*An inheritance built up by ripping money off the young to begin with.

So without means testing the children of rich people stay rich, but with means testing the children of the rich become slightly less rich.

[Tupac Shakur]

An analysis of recent jobs figures at Investor.com reveals a disturbing development: the biggest beneficiaries from the economic recovery are Boomers, while everyone else is getting the shaft.

Since the Obama administration took office, there has been an epochal shift. Young workers have continued to lose jobs and incomes, while older workers have actually gained ground.

In fact, the Obama administration has seen a boom in the prospects of the 55+ crowd; their (I should say ‘our’) employment stands at a 42 year high. Net, there are 3.9 new jobs for people over 55 since the recession began in December 2007, but there are 8.1 million fewer jobs for the young folks since that time.

The War Against the Young

[Kidlicious]

It doesn't matter. They spend the money on imports. If they saved it, they would just invest it overseas.

[rah]

Then again Social Security was built on the promise of a payout for a pay in wasn't it? I don't think it'd be fair to change the playing field for existing contributors, but building a new mandatory means tested system seems perfectly reasonable for future generations.

Exactly. People that are in government pension plans paid into them and not social security. If anyone suggests that they they be means tested on whether they should get their pension, people would say that's not fair. They paid into it.

I didn't get a chance to pay into a government pension, I (and my employer) was forced to pay 12% of my income into SS. Over the years that's over a quarter of a million dollars and will pay more before I ever see a dime. Why should I be means tested when those that paid the same if not smaller percentage into pension plans aren't?

You can hate Boomers all you want. But don't use it as an excuse to break the promise.
It's easier to whine about a program that you haven't paid much into. We have.

If you want to modify the promise for future generations, at least they'll know what the new promise is and plan accordingly. For those of us that have been paying into it for 35 years, it's a little late.

[Jon Miller]

You should have had more kids (and more productive kids) if you wanted that.

JM

[Dauphin]

If you want to modify the promise for future generations, at least they'll know what the new promise is and plan accordingly. For those of us that have been paying into it for 35 years, it's a little late.

That would be kicking the can down the road, and lumbering the problem onto the next generation who can then make the same complaint as you. Who will fund the payments when contributions into the system collapse because it's closed to new entrants? Your payments are currently funding the retired. Who will fund you?

Someone will get screwed. It's the last man to leave who gets caught with the bill.

[rah]

Should people with government pensions have had more kids? What's the difference?

[rah]

That would be kicking the can down the road, and lumbering the problem onto the next generation who can then make the same complaint as you. Who will fund the payments when contributions into the system collapse because it's closed to new entrants? Your payments are currently funding the retired. Who will fund you?

Someone will get screwed. It's the last man to leave who gets caught with the bill.

Should we just let all the pension plans in trouble fail?

[Jon Miller]

Someone obviously shouldn't contribute to a defined pension fund if they don't expect to get out what they put in.

SS was set up based on you doing earlier than you will, and of you having more children than you did.

JM

[Dauphin]

Should we just let all the pension plans in trouble fail?

I'm just saying your argument is based on vested interest. There's nothing wrong with that. As an outsider the benefit in your proposal is that it helps you and those like you. Not that it solves the problem.

[rah]

Someone obviously shouldn't contribute to a defined pension fund if they don't expect to get out what they put in.
JM

And when most started it was a reasonable expectation that they would get something out.

We were forced to contribute to SS regardless of our beliefs that we would get anything back.
And when we started paying in, there were no doom and gloomers. It was expect that we would get something back. And let's be real here. Most pension plans work that you get at least 50% of your current salary. And a lot of politicians figured out a way to make 200% or more of their current salaries. Even under the best of circumstances SS isn't going to return 25% of what you made despite paying in as much many did into pension plans.